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  1. #1
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    New 2k Grey Seer List

    Ok, so after getting my amazing tax returns back, I officially am going to go out and buy a bunch of rats to make my 2k army. Here is what I was thinking for a list.

    Grey Seer
    Foul Pendant
    Skalm

    Plague Priest
    Level 2
    Flail
    Shadow Magnet Trinket
    Scrying Stone
    Plague Furnace

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Warp Energy Condenser

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Doom Rocket

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    25 Skavenslaves
    25 Skavenslaves
    25 Skavenslaves


    27 Plague Monks
    Full Command
    Storm Banner

    8 Gutter Runners

    Doomwheel
    Doomwheel

    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 8th, 2010 at 03:23.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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  3. #2
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    Well, even though I have been the only person posting in the skaven forum for the last 5 to 6 days, Ill keep hoping for some nice skaven discussion

    So I think I am going to change the list up a bit. Im gonna replace one doomwheel with a warp lightning cannon, and drop the levels off the doom caddy. With these points I am going to do the following.

    - Take 5 slaves off each unit and combine them into a new unit of 20 slaves.
    - Give the non wizard engineer a warp musket
    - Add a unit of 8 Plague Censer Bearers

    So this would be the new list.

    Grey Seer
    Foul Pendant
    Skalm
    Warp Token

    Plague Priest
    Level 2
    Flail
    Shadow Magnet Trinket
    Plague Furnace

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Warp Energy Condenser

    Warlock Engineer
    Warpmusket
    Doom Rocket

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavensaves


    27 Plague Monks
    Full Command
    Storm Banner

    8 Plague Censer Bearers

    8 Gutter Runners

    Doomwheel

    Warp Lightning Cannon

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 11th, 2010 at 23:05.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

  4. #3
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    172 (x7)

    ok! well with all the amazing feedback, ive gone ahead and revised the list a bit more. What do you guys think of this one

    Grey Seer
    Foul Pendant
    Dispel Scroll

    Plague Priest
    Level 2
    Flail
    Shadow Magnet Trinket
    Scrying Stone
    Plague Furnace

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Warp Energy Condenser

    Warlock Engineer
    Warplock pistol
    Doom Rocket

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves


    27 Plague Monks
    Full Command
    Storm Banner

    8 Plague Censer Bearers

    8 Gutter Runners

    Doomwheel

    Warp Lightning Cannon

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 15th, 2010 at 03:52.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

  5. #4
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    hey heres that reply you were looking for

    I personally dont like the WLC I used to field it and rolled 2's and misfires all the time. If you have the points just sitting there than take it, and dont take it out for items.

    I wouldnt take the censer bearers either, that can kill themselves too easily. You already ahve that covered with teh furnace too. I would give your priest the censer as well.

    I would drope the clan rates down to 25 drop some slaves and try to get another unit of clanrats but that is preferance. I dont rock the slaves as much as you do.

    Drop the doom rocket and consider another wheel(if you can make the points - more important than the other suggestions) The doomwheel is like an engineer except its good in cc.
    as you can tell im not a fan of the engi's used to play them....they died too easily.

  6. #5
    PokeSavant Esco Thomson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetaMaster View Post
    hey heres that reply you were looking for

    I personally dont like the WLC I used to field it and rolled 2's and misfires all the time. If you have the points just sitting there than take it, and dont take it out for items.

    I wouldnt take the censer bearers either, that can kill themselves too easily. You already ahve that covered with teh furnace too. I would give your priest the censer as well.

    I would drope the clan rates down to 25 drop some slaves and try to get another unit of clanrats but that is preferance. I dont rock the slaves as much as you do.

    Drop the doom rocket and consider another wheel(if you can make the points - more important than the other suggestions) The doomwheel is like an engineer except its good in cc.
    as you can tell im not a fan of the engi's used to play them....they died too easily.
    Now, I am not normally one to say folks are flat out wrong, or confused...but between this advice and a few others, I am a bit sketchy on your overall grasp on things...

    Let's start with your advocation of the Plague Censer on his Plague Furnace mounted priest...that is a terrible idea as he will be shelling out maybe 3 tests, and causing in excess of 9 on his own unit...followed up by stating that he shouldn't take Plague Censer Bearers for what seems to be the same reason...

    Plague Censer Bearers are a solid unit. They have a few drawbacks, mainly frenzy & skirmishing, but the chance to pop a model here and there from censers isn't too bad. I would however run 6 or 7 strong as you may lose some here and there, if you don't...basically going to be parking a guy to needlessly take a test.

    Your unit sizes for the Clanrats are solid, though looking at some form of weapons team might be beneficial here.

    Slaves could use one more model each to increas the number needed for panic. I personally use musicans as they are cheap and help to rally if you elect to flee/panic. That is more to taste though.

    The Doomrocket is a fantastic item, and I would field it whenever possible.

    I love my Gutter Runners, and run mine 6 deep with slings and poison. Still "fairly" cheap unit, but can cause big headaches. I would think that if you are running them naked, maybe stick to 6 or 7 to free up some points.

    Not entirely sold on the Warplock Pistol, but they are cheap.

    I think that Doomwheel and WLC is fine, I personally prefer 2 wheels, but that's just how I roll (hah!)
    It's Adventure Time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Now, I am not normally one to say folks are flat out wrong, or confused...but between this advice and a few others, I am a bit sketchy on your overall grasp on things...
    I hope you dont wonder why people dont reply. That being said i work with statistics all day so there is alot of thought/play experience into my advice. More over it all depends on how you play the race, since this is your response to me ill assume you dont play like i do, and lets leave it at that. But i will explain my thoughts, if you dont agree maybe you will atleast see where im coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Let's start with your advocation of the Plague Censer on his Plague Furnace mounted priest...that is a terrible idea as he will be shelling out maybe 3 tests, and causing in excess of 9 on his own unit...followed up by stating that he shouldn't take Plague Censer Bearers for what seems to be the same reason...
    This is situational, it can be a bad thing but you are garenteed to drop alot of their units. More over it depends on the army you are fighting. IF their units are much cheaper than yours i would agree, the cost will not be worth it. Also using your slaves as a block can get this unit into combat with the correct unit to maximize damage. Also if you did this then you would need to take more troops to compensate for the expected loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Plague Censer Bearers are a solid unit. They have a few drawbacks, mainly frenzy & skirmishing, but the chance to pop a model here and there from censers isn't too bad. I would however run 6 or 7 strong as you may lose some here and there, if you don't...basically going to be parking a guy to needlessly take a test.
    I agree with your size choice since more is not better but with 8 you can expect to lose 1 every turn in combat(till there are 5 left then deaths should lower). Not to mention whatever die because of losing fights. I assume the opponent will be smart and know he can tie up your units with something really cheap and watch you kill yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Your unit sizes for the Clanrats are solid, though looking at some form of weapons team might be beneficial here.
    I dont assume people like the weapon teams so i wouldnt suggest adding them. But some more range on the army would be nice. 25 is enough imo, some people really liek 30 though... its more preferance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Slaves could use one more model each to increas the number needed for panic. I personally use musicans as they are cheap and help to rally if you elect to flee/panic. That is more to taste though.
    I agree 21 is a better choice, as for the musician unless you are near your general chnaces are they wont rally anyway. If you have the points left over then why not but i wouldnt free and up for them. Slaves are great blockers and when they are in your way charge them in and let them break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    The Doomrocket is a fantastic item, and I would field it whenever possible.
    this item has a cost with a chance of no returns. Great againts hoards but if you miss its like starting the game at a disadvantage. When i spend points i like to have a return, which is why im not a fan. There are worst things you could take but i thinky ou could find something better. Freeing up the points makes it easier to get a second wheel

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    I love my Gutter Runners, and run mine 6 deep with slings and poison. Still "fairly" cheap unit, but can cause big headaches. I would think that if you are running them naked, maybe stick to 6 or 7 to free up some points.
    its not hard to make them flee but i agree the risk is worth the possiblity of the reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Not entirely sold on the Warplock Pistol, but they are cheap.
    once again if you ahve the point go for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    I think that Doomwheel and WLC is fine, I personally prefer 2 wheels, but that's just how I roll (hah!)
    Yes 2 wheels, the WLC can be relied on, the range is very nice but getting that straight line can be hard if there is alot of action




    I think this answers it all, I should post my list and strat, it might make more sense then.
    Last edited by BetaMaster; April 16th, 2010 at 21:07.

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    Plague Censers are gold. if you manage to get them in combat they pay for their points easily.

    Also a big fan of the Doom Rocket. it´s a big IF but when it happens its a game winner.

    on my 2250 list I protect my flanks with HPABO and 1 Whell. I hvae being strugling to buy a Warp Cannon, would love to hear a bit more regarding their effectiviness.

    What about 2 Plague Furnaces, I know it´s a bit cheesy but if you field a pestilens list it might be ok.

    Another question: have you guys even thought abou assassins? And why gutter runners and not night runners?

    Last - never got giant rats to actually work besides helping screening or close or locking something in close combat FAST. Any thoughts?

    other then that list looks pretty solid!

  9. #8
    PokeSavant Esco Thomson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetaMaster View Post
    I hope you dont wonder why people dont reply. That being said i work with statistics all day so there is alot of thought/play experience into my advice. More over it all depends on how you play the race, since this is your response to me ill assume you dont play like i do, and lets leave it at that. But i will explain my thoughts, if you dont agree maybe you will atleast see where im coming from.
    Well of course Warhammer is all situational, based on how a player uses the "tools" he has at his/her disposal. To me that goes without saying. The fact that you work with statistics all day just causes me more uneasiness with regards to the Plague Censer suggestion. You will take 15 toughness tests while your opponent is taking 5, even with you failing on 6's, this still is a really terrible idea.

    Go ahead and post your thoughts in a PM to me, or we could start a separate thread too, I would like to hear them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    Plague Censers are gold. if you manage to get them in combat they pay for their points easily.
    Agreed, and with the number of units we can place down, screening them is not nearly as difficult as people make it out to be. Just engage with an unbreakable, and counter charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    Also a big fan of the Doom Rocket. it´s a big IF but when it happens its a game winner.
    It isn't even that big of an "if", you just need to use it smartly. When you start going against large blocks, or clustered war machine batteries, and other such things it becomes pretty easy to hit things.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    On my 2250 list I protect my flanks with HPABO and 1 Whell. I hvae being strugling to buy a Warp Cannon, would love to hear a bit more regarding their effectiviness.
    I have yet to use teh WLC, though everyone I talk to pretty much swears by it. It does have two misfires to dodge, but only one of them is damaging. Still, I have a hard time not using the slot for another Doomwheel or at the least an Abomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    What about 2 Plague Furnaces, I know it´s a bit cheesy but if you field a pestilens list it might be ok.
    I think cheese is still a stupid term, it is either legal, or not. Also, there really isn't anything gamebreaking about a large frenzied block with no armor, and genereally a huge flank. It hits hard, no doubt, but it also can be taken out very quickly if your opponent has the tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    Another question: have you guys even thought abou assassins? And why gutter runners and not night runners?
    I have thought about using an assassin almost daily. Nothing really bad I would say about them, just that I think I usually don't have the extra points to use on him. He can be good at a few different tasks, and at the base might even be good at just hopping out to churn a little combat resolution.

    Gutter Runners Skirmish, Scout, and Sneaky Infiltration. They also have the option for Poison, and have better WS, BS, LD and a Ward Save. They also should really be serving different roles, though to be honest I don't see much use for Night Runners at all anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by PauloFernandes View Post
    Last - never got giant rats to actually work besides helping screening or close or locking something in close combat FAST. Any thoughts?
    Giant Rats are amazing. There are lots of great things that they can do to easily impact a game. For 23 points you can park one in terrain to secure/contest a table quarter. They work quite well to run up and pivot to force your opponent to redirect charges at bad angles. They can war machine hunt/light cavarly/mage hunt.

    Alternatively you can field them in larger units to have a fast moving unit that puts out a lot of attacks, and is dirt cheap. Adding in Master Moulders ups the price, but allows for some solid strength hits. Something that is a bit more rare in this list.

    I have been testing out running a unit of 5 Giant Rats, with a Master Moulder with a Great Weapon; clocks in at 52 points. Still pretty cheap, but gives me fast, maneuverable higher strength hits to add in to existing combats. Works vaguely similar to how Skink/Kroxigor units work, with notable difference. Rats still just serving as the delivery system.
    Last edited by Esco Thomson; April 17th, 2010 at 16:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    Well of course Warhammer is all situational, based on how a player uses the "tools" he has at his/her disposal. To me that goes without saying. The fact that you work with statistics all day just causes me more uneasiness with regards to the Plague Censer suggestion. You will take 15 toughness tests while your opponent is taking 5, even with you failing on 6's, this still is a really terrible idea.
    So i have read more into this on other forums and it does look like there are alot of people against it. Still there are just/almost as many for it. My advice add some more monks and play test it with a friend. Ive played with is and without, i prefer with. Just remember with the play testing, you cant get them into every fight or to many of your units will die.

    given your numbers lets assume everyone fails their tests. I lose 15 he loses 5 my units are worth 7 each for a total of 105 (very unlikely to lose so many). Well as long as i go after units worth more than mine... idealy 21pt per model it would be a fair fight. Now that is assuming we lost all our models. So you wont pass 1/6 of the tests so out of the 15 tests you will lose 2-3 units. If you opponent is t3 or t4 notice that his 5 tests he has the same or almost the same chance to lose that many units. Hear is the important thing make sure the units you fight are more important that the units you could lose. I know that is tough to do with frenzy but if you are cunning and deceptive (like a skaven player should be) im sure you can manage to pull it off.

    and hell if you cant make it work then dont field it again...no harm no foul

  11. #10
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    ok, so I playtested both the Plague Censer bearers and the priest with the censer and I gotta say, wasn't really a fan of either of them. With the new errata (where PCB's hurt themselves even before getting into combat) my PCB's and the Priest were killing themselves and monks right and left before even getting in combat.

    The one engineer was killing enemies like crazy with warp lightning, so another engineer casting it could only be that much better right?

    Doomwheel was by far the MVP of the game, taking out a unit of Minotaurs in one turn on its own and messed up all sorts of stuff with impact hits and lighting, again going with the reasoning that if one was amazing, a second one would just be that much better.

    All the expendable units of skavenslaves were pretty great too. 4x20 is going to start being standard fare in my lists.

    Based on that I have decided to go back to a similar list to my first one.

    Grey Seer
    Foul Pendant
    2 Warptokens

    Plague Priest
    Level 2
    Flail
    Shadow Magnet Trinket
    Plague Furnace

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Warp Energy Condenser

    Warlock Engineer
    Level 2
    Doom Rocket

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    30 Clanrats
    Full Command
    Shields

    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves
    20 Skavenslaves


    27 Plague Monks
    Full Command
    Storm Banner

    8 Gutter Runners

    Doomwheel
    Doomwheel
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 20th, 2010 at 20:15.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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