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    New to WFB, are skaven ok for newbies?

    High all!

    I'm traditionally a 40k player. (Necrons ) and I"m thinking about starting fantasy.

    I like the look of the skaven.(I mean, come on. Who can't like giant ran men?)

    But I was just wondering is it a fairly user friendly race for a first time WFB player?

    In the Castle of Pain on a Mountain of Skulls I sat on a Throne of Blood. What was will be, what is will be no more. Now is the season of Evil!

    - Vigo the Carpathian


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  3. #2
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    The biggest deterrent to newbies is the sheer number of models. Make no mistake, a Skaven army will be BIG. Easily pushing 200 models in 2000 points big. Huge.

    If you can wrap your head around buying, building, and painting that many models (ha ha! painting ) then everything else is all good.

    The Skaven book is a bit outdated, but still very viable against the new armies out there. Skaven are all about numbers and killing lots of things (and not always the enemy). Their weapons and magic are extremely deadly but not always reliable so you'll often be exploding or exploding into your own troops as often as you will be exploding into the enemy. Either way, something is going to explode and die spectacularly

    For a first timer Skaven gives you plenty of opportunities to get manuevering down pat. With so many units on the board it is much easier to force your enemy into bad positions by presenting him with too many targets, surround him, and get those lovely flank and rear charges. Skaven magic and shooting is very effective when it isn't busy wreaking havoc amongst your own units, so it's always good for a laugh. Also you don't have to worry about all different kinds of units with weird rules like chariots, monsters, or cavalry. Skaven are all infantry, skirmishers, and one war machine (the Warp Lightning Cannon, which does operate under unique mechanics).

    All in all, it can be daunting to have so many models, but Skaven are a lot of fun and a great way to get into the game.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

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    Junior Member DeathJester's Avatar
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    Skaven are getting a new book in aprox 6 months. My first and current army for wfb is(or was?) skaven the number of models can be abit daunting although its not the collecting or the assembling of the models it is purely the painting of about 120 models for my 1500 point army that makes me go ill do it tommorow .(really need to motivate myself to start painting again) So if you love or even like painting models then it is a great first time army.
    What is free will but an illusion created by those foolish enough to belive they have any control over their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathJester View Post
    Skaven are getting a new book in aprox 6 months
    Could you show me a link to this?

    -AFG//

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    Hey Blackstone,

    I'm just starting WFB from 40k myself and chose Skaven as my starting point as well. I'm just getting kicked off but Skaven seem to be alot of fun in the learning process. There are alot of models, but if you are an Ork or Imperial Guard player it won't actually be that much of a change (I have an all-light infantry IG army so Skaven is actually *less* intimidating than my 40k army).

    Here seem to be the advantages:

    1. You learn manuevering (mentioned above).
    2. You learn the magic phase effectively.
    3. You get to learn what I've been calling "Morale Management".
    4. You don't (at least as far as I can tell yet) any "I Win" units so you don't end up relying on a crutch unit while you are learning.
    5. They are a huge amount of fun (only played a few small games so far).

    MC

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    Skaven are a blast and most people her have nailed their drawbacks. when people ask what army to start with i tend to sugest either Empire or Lizardmen. both of those armys are the most balanced and are easily tailored to any playing style. want to be magic heavy, All calvary, Ranged heavy, these 2 armys are great for allowing you the flexability to try everything (they can play well in all phases)

    skaven are great as well in many ways, our drawbacks do include, Low leadership, Slow (yes were MV 5+ but we have no calvary/flyers) as well all in all the army is rather week. We have no ability to give great weapons or such to increase str above 4 (exception of Censors) as well we are rather week (t3 for majority) but we do have numbers, we have lots of numbers, Skaven will teach you the power(read necesity) of multi unit charges.
    Painting: 20 quarrelers

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    skaven are pretty much the polar opposite of necrons.

    necrons have smallish armies of very tough warriors
    backed up by hilariously powerful elites ect, and then
    a kiily -ass lord that make all your warriors rise from the dead!

    skaven have stupidly massive armies of cheap death-loving clanrats
    backed up by a large selection of Ok specials that can suicide spectacularly
    and you get heroes that are fairly mediocre but some fairly awesome weapons...

    basically necron play to survive
    skaven play to die & win.

    they are pretty much the opposite
    also skaven will take longer to paint well.

    they are both awesome armies though,
    just different

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    First of all: imo skaven are a matter of money.

    There are two kinds of skaven armies
    - the ones that always win: full of clanrats, giant rat packs, slaves, shooting and magic, plus some monks and censers. This means that at 2250 points you need to build up a core of around 8 units of 30 models each and then buy ratlings and jezzails and so on ...it can be very expensive...
    - the ones that always lose: with smaller units of around 20, not much shooting, with stormvermin, rat ogres and other useless things. This saves money but you then risk not to like the game, because you could not taste the full power of skaven.

    If you're willing to invest money (and time to paint), skaven are a superb army, as long as they fill up their entire deployment zone.
    -did you ever see an opponent with flyers and fast cavalry, wondering where could he send them, because there is no physical space left? LOL-
    But if you don't want to do a blind-buy, try something cheaper like elves or empire, where you can field smaller units that are still effective.

    It's better, it's shiny, it's warped...it's Chaos.

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    Son of LO MouseC112's Avatar
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    Been playing skaven for a while now... this is actually round 2 with skaven as I started them played about 20 games, scrapped them, and returned with new ambition.

    1. They are not a newbie army to fantasy. Skaven have tons of army specific rules, that break the regular methods of thought. Their magic is just as destructive to themselves, shooting into combat, morale, life is cheap are just a few examples. Building the large amount of models is incredibly difficult. Currently, the major driving force in fantasy is fear/ terror.. which we have little of, and are very affected by. We don't have the full magic defense to stand up to Vampire Counts, but we have the offensive magic and shooting to deal with them. Demons are tricky to fight, and Dark Elves are rough. We have one of the older army books, making match ups a little rough. Right now we are behind the curve, and newbies expect to win a lot, this won't happen with skaven, expect about a 50-50 win to loss ratio, until you learn to play tournament style.

    2. Skaven are INSANELY fun to play. Everyone thinks we suck. Our based leadership is horrible, we have no armor saves, we are Str 3 toughness 3. But we've got Jezzails... str 6 -4 to save. We've got weapon teams which will make/ break games. We've got slaves... lots of them, they are cheap and expendible... use them that way. We have incredible magic when it works, low casting costs when compared to spell abilities. Lastly we have the great equalizer... gutter runners and warp lightning cannons. Having a unit that pops up and can charge with poisen weapons is incredible. Send them after wizards in units, warmachines, they kill it all. Warp lightning cannons shoot through terrain... d6 wounds... magical weapon... enough said.

    3. My thoughts: If you played necrons you've probably been exploited in games. Skaven get exploited easily. Its not a horrible transition, but its not great. I think if you hang with the army it is very rewarding. Having a skaven army fully painted is impressive. I'm very proud of my 2250 list, pictures are available with the below link.

    Play, swarm, kill, life is cheap.

    Land of the Chosen -> Warhammer- Skaven Army
    40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow_Man View Post
    There are two kinds of skaven armies
    - the ones that always lose: with smaller units of around 20, not much shooting, with stormvermin, rat ogres and other useless things. This saves money but you then risk not to like the game, because you could not taste the full power of skaven.
    this is complete BS. I play a pure pestilence army (aka clanrats, slaves, monks, censors, preists, chieftains and grey seers) so i have nothing in my army that shoots. 0 shooting. you can win the game with 0 cheese. take 1 grey seer, 1 plague priest with liber and then do as you wish with the other chars.

    The above choices (heavy shooting, heavy magic, ext) will make people not want to play with you (like the 18 power dice vampire count armys, or Thorek gunlines with dwarfs) If you want to play in tourny's and only play people who play "cheese" lists then go ahead. if you want to have fun and play with other regular players avoid the "cheese lists" make a list you find enjoyable but don't go overboard.

    Skaven are a tough army to get used to as you need to work with multi charges, knowing when to flee. resisting the urge to charge into everything. Skaven require co-ordination and in fact small units work well. (i usualy recomend at least 25 per unit) put your monks in untis of 20, slaves in 30's or even slaves in 20 to be expendable screens.

    Skaven are fun as you have experience with the game the new 40k -> fantasy isn't that hard of a stretch so go for it. if you wanta very new player friendly army get dwarfs, lizardmen or empire. all these armys are very new player friendly, very easy to make what you want with little to no effort (as in you can change your list dinamics very easily) and they are also fun to play. that's the key thing, find an army you enjoy playing and your oponents enjoy playing. be expected to looose your first few games no matter what army you play.
    Painting: 20 quarrelers

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