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So we have a new book and some fun new options. Ultimately however, with no route to stubborn for example, just how tough are we?
Which tier do you think the new Skaven book falls on?
Are we a world-eating top tier army? Or are we still middle to bottom as we were before the book revision?
The difference is the new hard hitters such as the abomination and doom wheel. Also the push carts.
Slightly more magic punch. Everything is cheaper.
Over all not that much of change, I can't see this being able to hit the vampire count or demons off their top spot.
It will be fun to field all the skryre stuff though.
"The ones with lingon och skit" - Andusciassus
Unbreakable is pretty freakin' sweet.
New monsters are cool, new toys are fun, non-skirmishing Nighties, nerfed Ratlings and Special PWG kinda hurt.
I'd say the skaven book is pretty darn good. Flexible, powerful, and a lot of viable builds. Kinda like DE or Lizardmen, solid without being crazy.
Good comments. Personally I feel that we have been given tools that are up to the job. I don't feel that playing against anyone, demons and vampires included is now an auto win or lose situation.
We can combine punch and numbers and the threat of assassins in otherwise disposable units makes me want to snigger.
With most people playing games that involve only one Lord are most people thinking that a grey seer is a surefire choice?
I don't think a Grey Seer is an automatic choice, but they're very useful. Warlords are crazy hitty for cheap and have some awesome mount options. The Vermin Lord is not as powerful as other GDs but he can do some damage (Storm Banner would be a must if you bring him). All the SCs look nice, if pricey, and lend themselves to particular builds.
As much as I hate Skaven, I wish I had the money to buy this:
Warhammer - Huge Skaven Army PRICE REDUCED
With these models, you could have a hayday with the new Skaven army book.
Seeing this Craigslist ad led me to fantasize about running a Skaven army, and I found this new Army Builder file with Skaven.
So here's the question for those of you who've read the new book, what do you think?
Is the new Skaven book tough? Are the magic and shooting strong enough to compensate for the weaker combat troops?
If you put a Grey Seer on a screaming bell and a plague priest atop a plague furnace, you could create two unbreakable infantry units, but those two units are still Skaven (toughness/armor elf).
It seems that there are many more opportunities for Skaven magic and shooting to backfire. An intentional risk of failure pervades a lot of the book. Units can injure themselves during movement, magic, shooting, and combat. Even better, several items in the magic items list will injure their owner.
There is no kick-ass super standard, like Dickenhoff, ASF, Rapturous Standard, or Stubborn Demons. Nor is there any reliable armor or talisman.
Grey Seers are really expensive, and there are only 4 non-common arcane items, none of them that great.
The abomination looks like absolutely fierce, and I'd sure as hell run one if I were doing Skaven.
As for the warp lightning cannon versus the plague catapult, I think I'd do the catapult because it's a template weapon.
Throughout the skaven army book, whenever there's a mention of template weapons, it reads something like "any model touched by a template." Apparently, there are no partials, which makes template weapons very, very powerful, especially since many allow no armor saves.
I think the modeling opportunities are flippin' awesome for someone who schemes up something really cool. Any takers?
So yeah, I wish I had the money to buy this Skaven army.
Unbreakable Skaven are awesome, especially considering how cheap they are. With the Furnace in there, anything touching them is getting T-tested to death while smashed with a Censer. The Bell unit isn't so good in combat, unless it's Stormvermin, but having them unable to break from combat is so useful.
Skaven shooting and magic is insane, I think it's actually better now. They also have some nasty combat units, PCBs, the A-bomb, Doom Flayers, Priests, the Plague Furnace, Warlords, and Qweek.
Skaven magic and shooting is always risky, but everything's cheaper so misfires hurt even less.
No super units, but the Furnace and PCBs (stubborn Frenzied Hatred 2 base attack for 3 total plague censer skirmishers!) are just wrong, as is the A-bomb. The Storm Banner can be turned back on after being activated, so enemy shooting can be shut down pretty easily.
Grey Seers got more expensive, but the Bell is cheaper and they have 13 spells to pick from. There aren't many useful arcane items, so you just load up on Power Stones and throw out the Dreaded 13th for laugh (4+ ward from the Bell is handy). The Shadow Magnet Trinket and Portents of Verminous Doom are handy.
The Catapult is awesome, but only S2. It works well in a Pestilens army that can dish out Wither (-1T on the target for the game, not RiP) consistently. I prefer the WLC for its cannonball shot plus small blast.
I'd say its an upper to top tier army now, but it remains to see how that will hold as other players adapt to our new units and abilities. I've only played one game with my skaven since the new book but a friend of mine has played quite a few games. He thought the rats were gods as he won his first 3 games, but now he's lost his last 3. He's starting to see games where his doomwheels or abominations never make it to melee.
Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1
Hurrah for the rats.
David, appreciate your remark about the modelling possibilities. I was thinking about the grot rebellion and wondering if the skaven codex could be employed in a suitably amusing fashion. Plenty of ideas to play with there!
As for the book. I too respect the copious opportunities that exist for us to kill more of our own troops than your opponent. Why else would you play with the rat-things.
A massive screaming bell unit just seems like the most fluffy thing imaginable and when you think that the bell effectively gives you 15 free skaven it only really costs 15x-y points. Where y is the cost of the screaming bell and x is the value of a clanrat.
Man this whole points thing is fun to negotiate!
I can't wait to see some of the lists that will be popping up around the new book.
What about the nasty twosome. Anyone have any ideas about destroying the vamps or the demons yet?
Skaven have a lot more punch too. The Furnace can take out undead ranks MUCH faster than they can get replenished, and pricey demons will fall like wheat unless they are nurgle. A nurgle block is still going to be annoying, but well-placed slaves can maneuver them out of position and essentially keep them from doing anything of importance.
I'd say we can put up a much better fight. I think pestilens would fare better against these opponents (more ITP, T4, furnaces EAT T3), but I think SAD would still fare pretty decently. You'd just have to watch your ranged and keep them from getting feared off the table.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times