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What's the best config for Clanrats? Is it worth the point to give them a spear and shield, or just leave them bare bones? Also, what about the command? Thanks.
well for 200 pts i think you get a unit of 25 clanrats, FC, spears, shields and either a doom flayer or ratling gun.
the damage that the weapon team brings is sooooo valuable that a unit of clanrats now has the possability of winning most H2H combat situations. mostly
Agree with Ninja on everything but the the weapon team. The Mortar is by far the best option as it is move AND shoot, and the poisoned templates make a mess of even hard units like chaos warriors.
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I have to agree that the mortars are the best all around choice right now. The flayer and the rattling gun are still good and have thier uses but I'd usually take the mortar over them.
Generally speaking, always get shields, spears are typically still not worth it. You cant fight in ranks on the charge and if you use the spears you don't get the hand weapon+shield bonus which could potentially result in you getting even LESS attacks as more rats die.
That said we now have a spell that poisons a units weapons, in this situation the spears can actually be worth it. More attacks that don't need to roll to wound can be devastating.
So my 2 cents on this is only take spears if you are planning on taking a caster that can potentially get this spell.
Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1
I think musicians and banners are pretty much required in any Skaven infantry block. Champs I'd only say if you have challenge concerns, they are the price of 2 full clanrats. Weapons teams are a matter of preference, though I find the Mortar to be the best for its price (Skaven doesn't have much difficulty dealing with low toughness opponents, but Mortars can be good anti- high T. That and ratlings were nerfed).
Spears vs. HW Shield is the debate, HW/Sh gives a 4+ CC save and spears attack in 2 ranks. However Str 3 1 A isn't gonna chew through much. Mathhammer is the best solution for these situations.
Let's try both combos against hard-as-nails infantry, and then against much softer infantry.
Spears Shield vs. Chaos Warriors (Chaos Armor HW shield)
10 Warrior attacks, 6.66 hits, 4.44 wounds, 3.7 wounds after save
6.3 Rat attacks, 3.15 hits, 1.05 wounds, .17 wounds after save
HW Shield vs. Chaos Warriors
10 Warrior attacks, 6.66 hits, 4.44 wounds, 3 wounds after save
2 Rat attacks, 1 hit, .33 wounds, .05 wounds after save
Spears Shield vs. Empire Spearmen (LA spear shield)
10 Rat attacks, 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.66 wounds after save
8.33 Empire attacks, 4.16 hits, 2.08 wounds, 1.38 wounds after save
HW Shield vs. Empire Spearmen
5 Rat attacks, 2.5 hits, 1.25 wounds, .86 wounds after save
9.13 Empire attacks, 4.57 hits, 2.28 wounds, 1.14 wounds after save
Our spears lose kill CR to warriors by 3.53, our HW shield lose kill CR to warriors by 2.95.
HW Shield is better against hard enemies by about 1/2 CR.
Our spears win kill CR to empire spears by .28, our HW shield lose kill CR to empire spears by .28 (weird).
Spears are better against soft enemies by about 1/2 CR.
Long story short, the choice between spears or HWs can potentially win or lose CR, but it probably won't. Since HW Shield is cheaper, I'd say it's the slightly better choice, but since we're talking about differences of a 1/2 point and 1/2 a CR, I'd say just decide based on your opponent. Take spears against horde armies and HWs against tough armies.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times
I don't think, Brock Samson, thtat maths has anything to do with dice. For basic clanrats (not with weapon) I have bare bones with shields for extra survivability in combat but if it's a large unit spears are good too for more attacks.
Maths has everything to do with dice.
In Warhammer you should at least know the odds you are working with. You don't need to follow them, after all, we all buy models that are terrible in the game but are lots of fun to paint. However the point still stands, you should at least know that you are going for the more inefficient choice.
hahahaha I guess your right. Just that with me say, 20 dice, 18 hit or 5 hit
Thats because dice laugh in the face of statistics...
But thats all we have to go on.
--Famous last words of Asmodean
Dice have a std deviation and a mean, the mean score on a single die is 3.5, and the odds are there for a "fair rolL" comparison. Because dice are imperfect, there is some bias introduced into rolling them, but TBH if you rolled 1MM dice 1 time each, this distribution should come up with an average score of around 3.5 MM, with a std deviation of 1.7 MM. This means that there is a 66% chance roughly speaking that the score will be between 2 and 5...
Anyway back to topic. Is having that 5+/4+ save REALLY much better than having a 6+ save? Especially when there are so many higher strength attacks on the field of battle (S4 AP missiles, war machines, great weapon infantry, lancers, monsters)? Conversely as there are quite a few T4+ models on the field of play, I'd say that spears + poison if you can get it is a really good combination - the synergy created by having the larger number of attacks and the ability to make these attacks poisoned is great - even a Swordmasters unit may not wipe out the first two ranks of a unit of Clan rats, and then any attacks back will not roll to wound on 6s to hit, enhancing killing potential. This gets much better when facing down single monsters like star dragons, giants, demons etc, as again, generally they can't wipe out more than 6-7 models in a single combat but your unit then at least gets attacks back which have a serious possibility of wounding, regardless of opposing toughness.
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