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so iv been wondering this for a while and i would imagine most other players are and that is, whats better storm vermin or plague monks, ill write the cons and pros for each (in my opinion) and you can tell me what you think/add additional comments
Pros: Get +1 strenght in combat, heavy armour,shield, weapon skill 4, initiative 5.
Basically i believe these to be the better option. They are going first against most armies in combat and they have a decent armour save vs ranged units. they cantake a magic banner (storm banner seem's popular) and the fang leader can take some lesser equipment. A solid brick of these guys is hard to move hard hitting and can out manouver most other units in the game.
Cons: Basic lack of hits they put out. With each model putting out 1 hit each in close combat they arnt going to be game winners any time soon. Also T3 isnt amazing but i guess thats what the heavy armour is there for.
Pros: Tougness 4, extra hand weapons, and frenzy.
They can also have a magic banner. Ok so at pretty much 3 attacks a pop they will given the chance, tear an enemy unit to shreds. They have a very nice toughness 4 which means less wounds against them in combat. But i honestly cant say anything else good for these guys.
Cons: ok so at the same point cost as the Storm Vermin they (in my opinion) have a lot of catching up to do. Also the fact they take up a special slot doesnt make me favour them that much either. These little guys will get shot to pieces by any player smart enough. They may be T4 but i feel that having no save at all makes them far to vunerable to magic/shooting. They can be kited around the field aswell, its good if they can get into combat... not so good if they spend their time chasing a fanatic around the table top. The lack of initiative is also a big draw back. They may get their 3 attacks, but if on the way to the enemy they get shot/zapped by the time you hit your enemy you could have lost alot of guys.. then they get to hit you first in CC the outcome wont be pleasent lol.
So these are my thoughts. if anyone wishes to comment/ add anything please feel free.
I think Monks are better, because you have to look at the army on the whole, not just the two units heads up.
Both will rarely get shot up, Skaven can bring a ton of big time targets that outrank both units. Also, we have amazing shooting defense with the Storm Banner, Gutter Runners, Howling Warpgale and the best defense of all: Slaves. hard cover and blocks warmachine fire thanks to TLoS.
Than you have Magic which really they die equally too. a 5+ save won't do you any favors, the T4 is far better defense. Both are weak to Magic but I'd say Monks are slightly more resilient, also they're Immune to Panic which isn't a major issue, but it's nice.
In combat, they fight the same things. Neither is equipped to fight elites, they lack the Str and resiliency. So they fight other blocks of roughly equal things, like Marauders, Halberdiers, Elven Spearmen etc. Now, the Storm Vermin hit on 3's about half and 4's about half, typically wounding on 3's. The Monks hit on 4's and wound on 4's but the extra attacks help balance, especially if deployed 6-7 wide for the extra frontage. Both are killing other blocks at about the same rate, Vermin a little higher because of the -1 save.
When getting hit, I like the Monks a bit better. I'd rather be wounded on 5's than save on 5-6, especially when it extends to shooting and magic. The save is the same as Initiative to me, not a big deal. I'm going to get all of my attacks back because there's no way an opponent killed that many in one round and I3 is same time against a decent number of units out there.
What I feel really tips them is the Plague Banner, which lets you shred an equal unit in one turn, probably breaking them with the CR advantage. Eating a whole unit quickly is worth it, even if they have to grind down another unit over the course of the game.
Also, Monks are a fine unit for all fighting characters, where as a Priest isn't as effective inside a Vermin unit, because of his Magic and the Censer. You also get to consider adding a Furnace, if you so choose.
That's my thoughts, not exactly as one on one as yours but I don't like to think of Warhammer in a vacuum. I see Stormvermin as a bodyguard unit, but Clanrats do that for cheaper, where as Monks have some interesting options (being in the Special slot) and I really like what the Plague Banner can do for them with expanded frontage.
WARNING INCOMING NOOB: I'd say monks are better. 3 strength 3 attacks or 1 strength 4 attack, they also have a extra banner option but do take up a special slot.
hmm i see, i was just wondering because people say you should take them over Storm Vermin. ill give them a shot next weekend and leave the vermin at home. im just thinking any play worth their salt will cannon/war machine them up and with their 0 save when they reach combat they wont have as much a punch striking last
The question of which is better is a very tough call. I personally feel that Storm Vermin have the edge. Their increased armour is probably slightly worse than the increased toughness of the Plague Monks, but on balance brings them fairly equal on resilience, an extra point of strength for half the attacks is a difficult one to quantify, it all depends on what you are fighting, against high armour or toughness of course the SV have the edge, but against anything with a basic armour save of course the Plague Monks will probably have the edge. In the end what swings my decision is the fact that the SV are almost always striking before their opponent. This is particularly useful against the heavier hitting units that they will generally be fighting, as each casualty will likely directly diminish the damage they take back. Plague Monks of course will generally strike equal to or last.
That having been said, although I would pick SV in a direct comparison I do really feel there is room for both and that they have quite different roles. Also, I've had more luck with Queek's SV than I've had with either of those, and given the choice I would pick that unit every time.
Skaven units are immune to cannon fire, put a Slave unit in front of them, 1" away and they have to bounce through the Slaves to hit them. Extremely low chance when you consider Misfires and Bounce rolls.
Mortars and Stone Throwers are a terror, but make those priority one to kill, even if you don't have Monks! Templates are bad news for rats, period.