1500 Deathwing

[Marnepup]

Oh, this is nasty under 6th edition rules. With power weapons being AP3, and cover being (mostly) 5+, the tactical terminator is back! And with deathwing being able to mix'n'match... I have decided to drop my venerable dreddies from my deathwing. Vennie status does nothing to keep you from being glanced to death, and standard dreddies are weak sauce to begin with. Land raiders, though, with the anticipated reduction in melta weaponry, the further nerfing (other than the stripping of a hull point) of glances, having a bonus HP, retaining assault vehicle status when vehicles without that rule are completely useless as transports...I could go on, but LRs are fantastic. So here's the list, to be used in a local tournament:

HQ:

Belial (APO upgrade and claws)
Libby with divination

Troops:

DW1: AC/PF, TH/SS (SGT), TH/SS, TLC, SB/PF
DW2: AC/PF, TH/SS (SGT), TH/SS, TLC, SB/PF
DW3: AC/PF, PS/SB (SGT), PF/SB (apo), 2xSB/PF
DW4: CML/TH/SS, TLC (SGT), 3xSB/PF

Heavy:

Land Raider Crusader

1500 on the nose. Squad one is Belial's. He can get away with claws (bonus attack at I5/WS5 with rerolls to wound) because the sergeant is a TH/SS model. In a challenge, if the enemy character(s) has (have) AP2 melee weapons and/or TDA, the sergeant accepts (or issues) the challenge while belial shreds the enemy squad. Conversely, an enemy character in power armor with nothing better than AP3...having two TDA characters in a squad mounted in an assault vehicle, one with TH/SS, and the other with claws...it's the homing missile of challenge swiss army knives. Similar story with the librarian's sergeant (squad two). The force stave is...interesting. Facing a power-armored opponent with nothing better than a power weapon, the librarian should win easily, since he'll wound on 2+, not AP, but ID, versus the opponent wounding on 4+ and not APing....but really, why would he accept or issue the challenge in place of the sergeant? Where the force stave is definitely awesome is against bugs... with that S and AP and concussion... the force stave was made for knocking nids on the noggin... I'd rather he had the force axe, but they're modeled the way they're modeled, and he's there for a purpose other than melee!

I'm thinking belial in the crusader and the other three squads staying within range of the libby while trying to hold down the objectives on 1/4 to 1/3 of the board. I don't think termies need to mob up quite as much as they did in 5th, the nerfing of power weapons should make them more survivable when they strike out "alone and unafraid" to sieze an objective solo... but it shouldn't be hard to win by owning 1/3 of the board while sticking the crusaderload of pain in the enemy's heart. I'm not really accustomed to playing anything but 1750 and 1850 games, but this 1500 list feels stronger in 6th than 1850 was in 5th.

WSY?

[greektlake]

this looks like a solid DW list to me. i'm assuming that squad three will be sitting on the objective farthest away from from the enemy. have fun!

[Marnepup]

Could be 3 or 4. From 2 to 4, I've really only thought about the libby squad. That's obviously biased towards melee, so besides hosting the psycher-in-residence, they're counter-assault should 3 or 4 look like they're going to be swamped with numbers.

[juggulator]

only issue I see is fliers maybe or mobs of las shots and devastators/ vindicators. I usually run IG/BA and I can tell you 2+ is really valuable but vs tons of shots you may have an issue with such few dudes and now that I run DC tycho I feel much better vs this list.

[Marnepup]

only issue I see is fliers maybe or mobs of las shots and devastators/ vindicators. I usually run IG/BA and I can tell you 2+ is really valuable but vs tons of shots you may have an issue with such few dudes and now that I run DC tycho I feel much better vs this list.

I'm not sold on the fliers threat. For one thing, EVERYBODY except IG has that problem. Second, it's not that insanely hard to win while ignoring one buzzing annoyance, there's no rule that you autolose if you encounter a flier and fail to shoot it down. Third, two autocannons and a twinlinked autocannon can throw up enough sixes that two turns of focused fire should generate a pen (can't glance!) AV12 every other turn if it's that important. And fourth...well, a 2+ save laughs at most flier weapons! In the long run, of course, I expect the CML to get flak missiles, so the flier threat management deficit is a short-term problem.

As for hordes and torrenting...well...they always were the bane of terminator armies. This list is actually less vulnerable than it was under 5th edition rules, since my 5th edition lists had exactly two stormbolters (the apothecary and interrogator-chaplain) and no assault cannons except for those on crusaders. So this is a much shootier list. It also has one more termie squad at 1500 points than it did under 5th edition. 1/3 more termies is a big step towards overcoming my numbers disadvantage. But, yeah, it's still a problem. Deathwing has never been an easy button in the 13 years that I've been playing the army. But it's also never been stronger than it is now (until the next DA codex nerfs them!)

[Intrepid]

I don't know how well having such wide varieties of equipment will work. It made sense last edition because you assigned wounds at will. Now that it's always the closest model--at least for shooting--it isn't too hard for a mobile enemy to snipe. Might not be a bad idea to field more uniform squads, specifically a heavy-LC squad in the Land Raider.

On a similar note, I had trouble using Assault Cannons on my Terminators because of shooting-wounds allocation. The AC likes to be on point because of its poor range. Sure, you can premeasure freely now but I find its range a serious liability. It's something to think about.

You'll want the Libbie in DW4. Rerolling to hit with blasts is very nice and, if he get the "ignore cover" power, you'll want plenty of storm bolters at hand. Great way to put down hordes, as my Guard were recently taught by a Space Wolf player.

I'm not sold on the fliers threat.

Agreed. The worst flyer threat I've encountered is a single, loaded Storm Raven. You only have that one turn to shoot it down before it switches to hovering and unloads its passengers anywhere it likes, after which it dies easily enough. Dedicated fliers have exploitable movement issues. I haven't faced flier spam yet but, just like the old IG Vendetta spam, I expect they'll do their damage then run out of targets...and now, I can spend the first turn or two fighting only half of their army!

[Marnepup]

Thanks for the advice, I'll move the libby. As for the ass cannons, well I hadn't thought of that, but since those guns'll be objective-camping, I don't have to shove them out front. If the enemy stays out of range, that's to my advantage. I will have to make sure he stays in back, though! Good call.

/edit/ On the mixed squads, that's always been my way, I did run complex squads in 5th for wound allocation shenanigans, but pure squads...blech. I didn't even run the CML Thundernator squads when the 3++ storm shields came around. I think my squads are fairly well balanced now, since there's no benefit to taking five different setups in one squad any more. One pure melee squad, one pure shooting squad, and two mixed squads. I think being able to set up individual termies based on what you want them to do for the squad without worrying about maximizing your wound allocation is liberating! Maybe I will replace the SB/PF guy in squad one with a TLC guy, though. That'll make three sets of claws, two hammers, and the flamer guy's fist. Good balance between claws and S8 AP2.