1000 Points Space Marine army for friendly play

[Red Archer]

Hey there, Veterans of the Emperor!

(First of all: sorry for my English. I am not a native speaker and mistakes may be common.)
I have been introduced to Warhammer 40.000 tabletop by two friends of mine and am now planning on collecting my own army. Of course, finances are always on the short, so I would like to initiately buy only those miniatures I will definitely use in an army that can hold its stand against both a Necron and a Chaos Marine army.
Of course I already have a Codex: Space Marines and have read through the rulebook. Also I am not completely new to tabletops, already having played one or the other game of Necromunda gang fights. Nonetheless I lack knowledge and experience and therefore call for your help with my forces. Thank you very much in advance!


This is what I will probably be facing:

Chaos Space Marines (1 Khorne General, about 10 Khorne Berzerkers and 10 Chaos Space Marines, 5 Terminators, 4 Chaos Space Marine Bikes, 1 Predator [Annihilator in the all-laser configuration, most surely])
OR
Necrons (1 Necron Lord, 20 Necron Warriors, 1 Tomb Spider, 3 Destructors and either a Monolith, or 5 Pariahs and a heavy Destructor)


Sorry, this information is vague at best and does not take into account any special equipment or abilities. Forgive me: my Scouts are still in training and recon is not perfect - yet.


This is what I was intending to field:

HQ:
Master of Sanctity on Space Marine bike with plasma pistol and melta bombs (15

Troops:
TacSquad Red: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10
TacSquad Blue: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10
TacSquad Green: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10
TacSquad Gold: Sergeant and 4 Marines, plasma cannon and plasma gun (105)
Scout Squad: Sergeant and 4 Scouts, missile launcher and 4 sniper rifles (95)

Elite:
-

Fast Attack:
Bike Squadron: Veteran Sergeant with plasma pistol, power weapon and combat shield, 4 Space Marine bikers, two melta guns, attack bike (27
Landspeeder Tornado: heavy bolter and assault cannon (8

Heavy Support:
-



Let me explain my intentions: Since the Necron seem to be most effective over medium distances and the Khorne army will rely on close combat, I have decided to put emphasis on stationary, long-range forces and combine them with powerful, fast units to make lightning quick hit-and-run counter attacks.
The infantry will set up in the farthest corner I can find that still gives good overview and leaves many lines of sight (our battle-field fortunately seems to provide little cover) while the fast attack forces will deploy more to the middle of the contrary end of my set-up zone. The Chaplain is supposed to lead the bikers from cover to cover in an attempt to outflank the opponent (or at least keep a handful of his units busy, only to buy more time for my fire-base) while the main force will take out support units (the Predator or Monolith / Destructors) first and then blast at every target stupid enough to present itself. The landspeeder is more of a libero to speed from hot-spot to hot-spot and give support fire where needed.
I have chosen to include that many heavy and armor piercing weapons because I am facing foes that have a 3+ armor save minimum and a Monolith is not an easy target to destroy while in case of the Predator I want to be reasonably sure to be able to harm it in my first shooting phase, keeping its evil laser cannons from blasting my poor soldiers (or speeders or bikes). The Khorne infantry must never be able to assault my troopers, therefore the many plasma weapons.
Originally I was planning to field a Devastator squad with four plasma cannons instead of a forth tactical squad, and instead leave the tactical squads with heavy weapons only instead of the special ones, but it turned out to be too much of a risk and too much of a cost. This way I have lots of protection for my vital weapons (many troopers can fall before I lose the ones that matter) and spare points to be spent on further units.


I know this list seems very unusual. It looks strange even to me as a newbie. But for all I know it is not as stupid as it might look, and now it is up to you to show me, where I am wrong or better off otherwise.


Before I leave this post to your evaluation, I may as well bring forth another suggestion: Since I read about Assassins yesterday I was wondering if it weren't useful to forget about one of my laser-cannon-tactical-squads and the useless combat shield on my Veteran Sergeant (those enemies, Necron Lord and Pariahs, that ignore armor saves, ignore invulnerable ones too) and instead buy a Vindicare Assassin who could then easily take out the Khorne General even if he joined with the Berzerkers. That would eliminate a big threat (the initiative 5 problem disposed my Chaplain-lead biker squad could easily cope with the Berzerker unit) and would surely not be the only target the Assassin would be useful against. Given his stealth suit and his long-range weapon it is not too risky a thing to deploy him, either.

I hope you're not too tired from all the text. Now let's hear what you think! Thank you a lot.


Edit: some typos corrected.

[rat of vengence]

Hey Red Archer, welcome. I don't have time to go into much, but the first thing I thought was how vunerable squads of 5 are. I would try to have them at 6 men at least. Drop the Chaplain to the cheaper one and lose his meltabombs to free up points. If all the heavy weapons can't kill the tanks, nothing will. Your chappie is for scything down troops.
More later

RoV

[Deek]

Yes that is a major thing you need to eliminate one of the squads and beef up the others since scoring units are very important in most games. I have also noticed that you have only one squad that is mobile now for a standard lastman standing game (you all know you play them) that is ok however when you have to secure up to 5 objectives or at least a majority to win, you will find that you are at a sever disadvantage. Consider the trait that allows you to trade a heavy weapon for a special weapon and make that squad ten strong with a terminator honor srgt with a powerfist. That squad is capable of laying down a lot of fire that will obliterate the chaos marines and can handle a weakened berserker squad in cc.

Remember for the necrons IGNORE the monolith and kill his warriors reduce him below 25 % and he automatically looses.

And welcome, May the forum be with you ......... Always

[Red Archer]

I am grateful for your advice! I see your point. The sole purpose for my army was to wipe out the enemy. I was too fixed on that because my first mission(s) will surely be seek and destroy scenarios and thus I failed to take into account any other type of confrontation played. I will try and see to that swiftly.

But aside from too little mobile and/or potentially scoring units the mix of weapons and troop types is acceptable (against said enemies)?
And the Assassin - even though it isn't my style to play with allies, especially independant, almost overpowered, characters (who are, moreover, killing in secret without having the guts to reveal themselves) - what do you think of the idea of hiring him?

Thanks for the tip on forcing the Necron to auto-retreat. I didn't know about that rule...

[gen.nehring]

in order to field an assassin, you must first field an inquisitor and they suck! Plus, in addition that you can only use 1 allied elite slot, that means you must take an allied inquisitor lord which will take up one of your HQ's as well as soak up tons of your points

[Chaosbrynn]

Hello Red Archer, welcome to LO. Ive come to comment on your list as you requested.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

(First of all: sorry for my English. I am not a native speaker and mistakes may be common.)
I have been introduced to Warhammer 40.000 tabletop by two friends of mine and am now planning on collecting my own army. Of course, finances are always on the short, so I would like to initiately buy only those miniatures I will definitely use in an army that can hold its stand against both a Necron and a Chaos Marine army.
Of course I already have a Codex: Space Marines and have read through the rulebook. Also I am not completely new to tabletops, already having played one or the other game of Necromunda gang fights. Nonetheless I lack knowledge and experience and therefore call for your help with my forces. Thank you very much in advance![/I]

Honestly your english seems better then many members who claim its their first language. Just stay away from Net Speak and youll do just fine.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

This is what I will probably be facing:

Chaos Space Marines (1 Khorne General, about 10 Khorne Berzerkers and 10 Chaos Space Marines, 5 Terminators, 4 Chaos Space Marine Bikes, 1 Predator [Annihilator in the all-laser configuration, most surely])
OR
Necrons (1 Necron Lord, 20 Necron Warriors, 1 Tomb Spider, 3 Destructors and either a Monolith, or 5 Pariahs and a heavy Destructor)

Ok well, as you already noticed your fighting 2 "MEQ" armies (armies with 3+ save troops). Fortunately, this lets you build a list that can easilly deal with both. The key here is S8 AP3 as that will instakill 90% of the models you named and deny them an armor save. In the case of the necrons its doubly important as it will also negate WBB.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Sorry, this information is vague at best and does not take into account any special equipment or abilities. Forgive me: my Scouts are still in training and recon is not perfect - yet.

No problem, thats more info then we normally get.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

HQ:
Master of Sanctity on Space Marine bike with plasma pistol and melta bombs (15

I wouldnt bother with the plasma pistol. First off, it costs you the same as a marine. Secondly, it can hurt your chaplain, not a good chance, but it CAN happen and we all know it only happens at the worst possible time. Lastly, the bike comes with a TL bolter that ignores rapid-fire restrictions. May as well use it. Just switch the plasma pistol to a normal CCW or bolt pistol. Aside from that, he definately needs terminator honours and frag grenades. Againt chaos, you will certainly need those extra attacks as those khorne bastards are damn good in close combat. The necrons, youll need that extra power weapon attack as it keeps them from making armor saves and doesnt allow WBB rolls. It will be VERY important when fighting that Lord with warscythe as youll want to kill him before he can attack you as you dont get saves. At 6 attacks with the chaplain re-rolling to hit, you should be able to take him down. Last ly, those frags, if your jumping from cover to cover, chances are, there will be enemy models in some of that cover. Frags, at such a cheap price are well worth it. ESPECIALLY since the bike squad already comes with them. If your chappy doesnt have them, the bike squad attacks first and your oponent can remove the models in base to base with your chaplain as casualties. Then, your chaplain, not being in base to base with any models, doesnt get anay attacks. The melta bombs arent necessary. 1 attack and your oponent gets to decide how difficult it is to hit with them. Let your lascannons take care of the tanks.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Troops:
TacSquad Red: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10
TacSquad Blue: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10
TacSquad Green: Sergeant and 4 Marines, laser cannon and plasma gun (10

Personally I prefer 6 men. 2 bolter marines for each heavy weapon. However, as neither of your oponents pack a lot of long range firepower, this probably isnt necessary. This does make for a good firebase. However, it could REALLY use a dev squad with 4 missile launchers to back it up. at 12" range, these squads pack a lot of firepower. However, between the ranges of 24" and 48" they pack very little. Against the khorne army especially your long range shooting needs to be upped otherwise you are playing a very dangerous game. The missile launcher dev squad, while being quite cheap is very adept at dealing with Khorne as well as necrons.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

TacSquad Gold: Sergeant and 4 Marines, plasma cannon and plasma gun (105)
Scout Squad: Sergeant and 4 Scouts, missile launcher and 4 sniper rifles (95)

The tac squad is a good addition to the others. Especially since your oponent has terminators that may deepstrike near you. However, that can also be taken care of by the plasma guns and the lascannons in your other squads. The scout squad needs to go. Sniper rifles have a singular purpose. Dealing with high toughness, slow monsters. You arent facing any of these. Some people consider demon princes targets for sniper rifles but ive never seen a demon prince that couldnt get to a sniper squad before it kills him. They generally move very quickly. I wouldnt count on anything other then a full 10 sniper rifles to deal with one of those. As it is, sniper rifles are only really reliable for other high toughness creatures when you have 7 or more.

So, in conclusion, id drop both of these squads for an 8 man, 4 missile launcher dev squad. It will provide perfect firepower for dealing with your enemies. I guarantee your oponents will begin to fear this squad in no time.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Fast Attack:
Bike Squadron: Veteran Sergeant with plasma pistol, power weapon and combat shield, 4 Space Marine bikers, two melta guns, attack bike (27

Drop the plasma pistol on the sergeant, again, it isnt necessary. I understand you would have liked the 2 plasma pistol shots in addition to the melta shots before you charge, especially considering the oponents you are facing, however, the extra points can be better spent elsewhere. The sergeant shoudl definately have a powerfist. Considering who your fighting, that powerfist with its 4 re-rollable attacks will reliably kill 3-4 models on the charge. If you find yourself charging those khorne berserkers, and you very well may eventually, the fist will come in handy.

After going over your points and the things I suggested you dont really have anything else to do with the points from the plasma pistol here so you may as well keep it. If points are needed however, id drop this first. You may want to keep it on the chaplain instead actually cosnidering the higher BS and more wounds in case it does go badly.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Landspeeder Tornado: heavy bolter and assault cannon (8

Cant go wrong with these babies. Keep it 24" away from any squad packed with bolters or gaus weapons (wich unfortunately in your case is pretty mcuh everything). 20 S4 shots will bring down a speeder and 10 has a pretty good chance. So, absolutely NEVER move it to 18" or closer and try to stay at least 25" away. Hopefully youve read the speeder tactica or this will be 80 points you lose very quickly.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Let me explain my intentions: Since the Necron seem to be most effective over medium distances and the Khorne army will rely on close combat, I have decided to put emphasis on stationary, long-range forces and combine them with powerful, fast units to make lightning quick hit-and-run counter attacks.

That is a good plan. Your bikers should be working where they can be covered by your fire base but not where they will block LOS to other oncoming units. Optimaly, you want your bike squad to be tied in close combat on your oponents turns do keep from getting shot. Be careful though against the kohrne army. You dont want to assault one squad only to be counter assaulted by another, you will surely lose your bike squad and chaplain if that happens. Worse still if your oponent doe sit well, he could be free to move again on his turn and end up in your firebase. If those berserkers get to your firebase, youve pretty much lost.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

The infantry will set up in the farthest corner I can find that still gives good overview and leaves many lines of sight (our battle-field fortunately seems to provide little cover) while the fast attack forces will deploy more to the middle of the contrary end of my set-up zone. The Chaplain is supposed to lead the bikers from cover to cover in an attempt to outflank the opponent (or at least keep a handful of his units busy, only to buy more time for my fire-base) while the main force will take out support units (the Predator or Monolith / Destructors) first and then blast at every target stupid enough to present itself. The landspeeder is more of a libero to speed from hot-spot to hot-spot and give support fire where needed.

Dont send your chaplain and bike squad away from your firebase. His job is to keep any oncoming assualt units from reaching your firebase. So long as you keep your firebase shooting every turn you should be able to pull off wins. If your bikes get cought away from your firebase they dont have any cover fire to keep from being assualted from multiple squads and more importantly, probably wont be able to get back to the firebase to protect it if needed. The landspeeder works exactly as you mentioned. Use it to fire last and clean up any units have some remaining models. It should generally be parked behind the firebase so anything that can shoot at it can be shot by your firebase.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

I have chosen to include that many heavy and armor piercing weapons because I am facing foes that have a 3+ armor save minimum and a Monolith is not an easy target to destroy while in case of the Predator I want to be reasonably sure to be able to harm it in my first shooting phase, keeping its evil laser cannons from blasting my poor soldiers (or speeders or bikes). The Khorne infantry must never be able to assault my troopers, therefore the many plasma weapons.

Aside from the monolith and the terminators the key here is missile launchers. They are cheap and do exactly what you need. Thats why i suggest the dev squad with 4 of them. For minimal points you get plenty of firepower. The dev squad should be able to annihilate the berserker squad before it ever gets close to your lines. Your 3 lascannons will have no problem dealing with the pred, especially since your lascannons set up after the predator. As far as the monolith goes, you should just ignore it. concentrate on killing warriors and destroyers and go for phase out. Be sure to know exactly how many necrons you need to kill to phase out the army. Remember, tomb spiders, monoliths, pariahs, scarabs and C'tan do not count towards the pahse out limit. Your right about the khorne infantry. I believe they can be given feel no pain, witch means they can ignore wounds that dont instakill. Hence that plasma weaponry, wich doesnt instakill, isnt really THAT usefull. Same goes for the necrons, they will still receive their WBB roll. Another reason those missile launcher should be considered.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Originally I was planning to field a Devastator squad with four plasma cannons instead of a forth tactical squad, and instead leave the tactical squads with heavy weapons only instead of the special ones, but it turned out to be too much of a risk and too much of a cost. This way I have lots of protection for my vital weapons (many troopers can fall before I lose the ones that matter) and spare points to be spent on further units.

Plasma dev squads cost far too much. The weapon is far cheaper in a tactical squad. And as you noticed, it makes for a a squad that has a big banner over it that says "KILL ME IM WORTH A LOT OF POINTS AND IM DANGEROUS". Missile launchers, being cheaper, make for a nice dev squad.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

I know this list seems very unusual. It looks strange even to me as a newbie. But for all I know it is not as stupid as it might look, and now it is up to you to show me, where I am wrong or better off otherwise.

The list isnt unusual at all. Its the standard firebase + mobile firepower + counter assault unit combo. It works very well for marines.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

[I]Before I leave this post to your evaluation, I may as well bring forth another suggestion: Since I read about Assassins yesterday I was wondering if it weren't useful to forget about one of my laser-cannon-tactical-squads and the useless combat shield on my Veteran Sergeant (those enemies, Necron Lord and Pariahs, that ignore armor saves, ignore invulnerable ones too) and instead buy a Vindicare Assassin who could then easily take out the Khorne General even if he joined with the Berzerkers. That would eliminate a big threat (the initiative 5 problem disposed my Chaplain-lead biker squad could easily cope with the Berzerker unit) and would surely not be the only target the Assassin would be useful against. Given his stealth suit and his long-range weapon it is not too risky a thing to deploy him, either.

Im sure someone mentioned this but assassins require you to take an inquisitor as well. Youll be spending a LOT of points in the end for the assassin and he just isnt worth it. Hes barely worth his own point cost lol.

In any case, you made a very good list for a newbie to the game. If you do want to go with what you put down you wont regret buyng any of those pieces. Chances are they will always be used.

Have you considered any traights? As the list is currently, you dont need any. But when you expand there are a couple traights that work VERY well with the firebase + counter assualt unit. Uber Drop pod squads (cleanse and purify + take the fight to them) as well as infiltrating devastators (honour your wargear OR see but be not seen) both work marvels with this type of list. Honour your wargear also allows you to take more devsatator squads, wich, ,obviously, for this type of list is great. In any case, build your 1000 point army first. From what I can see im sure it will do well.

As to the maneuverability/scoring problem. Remember, if your oponent doesnt have any scoring units left, well, you win dont you. Between the bike squad and the pseeder you have enough to take an additional quarter to the one you deploy in, if you detsroy enough of your oponents forces, youll win those missions easilly.

Oh, one last thing, you can feel free to ignore all my advice except one thing. Drop the sniper scouts. They arent very good and certainly arent necessary.

Cheers Mate!
Chaosbrynn

[Red Archer]

Wow! This was more help than I was ever hoping for. I don't know how to thank you for investing so much time and thought into my army! I will make sure the Emperor gets word of your great deeds in assisting your fellow battle-brothers!


You are probably very right about the sniper unit. They are the only part of my army that was fixed before I even had a Codex, as I just love the models. But it is true that they won't be of much use in this configuration considering the forces my army will be up against. I shall get rid of them and see where the points are best put to.
The 4-ML-Devastator squad seems very potent to me if guarded by enough spare bolter marines and it's firepower is more than big enough to compensate the loss of one tactical squad. I'll see to that, thank you very much!
Moreoever I am most glad about all your hints concerning the equipment of my Sergeant and my Chaplain, for this is often the most difficult choice for me to make. I can imagine the battle-field and set-up and therefore by some rate judge which troop types and configurations make sense, but when it comes to utilizing special equipment and other more detail things, one is in need of far more experience than I can come up with. You can't possibly ascertain how grateful I am for all your advice!

One more thing on the Sergeant: I gave incomplete information on that issue. Since both my friends switch between different army lists between games I don't feel bad doing so, too. Therefore, the Sergeant with the power weapon was only one configuration, which was intended to come to use against the Necron. My reasoning was that with exception of the Lord, all Necron units have an initiative value below 4, so it will make a difference if my Sergeant makes a handfull of kills before the enemy may strike. On the other hand against the Chaos Marines, whose units mostly share the initiative value of 4, it does not matter if I hit simultaneously with of after the enemy. So here, the power fist is clearly the better option.
Are these thoughts valid, or is the advantage of the power fist more important, even against low-initiative Necrons?

About the Assassin: I had not known that I am obliged to also field an Inquisitor as I am not that much into its rules and none had mentioned it here before you. Then, of course, I will have to drop that thought again. And no worries: it doesn't make me sad one bit.

As for traits: I have considered some of them, but I did not find it necessary to decide on them yet, since - as you said - my army as it is works well without. Let me thank you for your thoughts and tips on that, I will gladly look back upon them when the time for enlargement to 1,500 points has come.
The only trait I might use is to "uphold the honour of the Emperor". This is because the Chaos Marine player friend of mine is the only veteran of W40K in my group (the Necron player is as bloody a beginner as me) and he has never posessed too much terrain. That resulted in 3 lone buildings in the middle of the battle-field making up for all terrain there was in the Necron players first (and only) game. So cover saves will be largely unavailable anyway, and a 6+ invulnerable save against AP3/2/1 weapons might come in handy if you get a lucky roll.
Of course this situation is unbearable and I have already put more thought into designing new terrain than in coloring my own troops. So hopefully the battle-field will be more deserving of its name when I begin play.


I will now have to be going through my troops to see what options remain after cutting down equipment and the scout troopers, as you suggested. Then I shall implement the missile squad and see how it goes! It will take me some time, but I will post my new list as soon as it is ready, and of course I shall inform you how the Marines prevailed against the enemies of the Imperium!
Hopefully your tactical hints here and in all your tactica (of course I have read them) will stay in my head long enough for remembrance in the midst of battle, enabling me to crush all xenos and heretics as is our very duty.

[Chaosbrynn]

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Wow! This was more help than I was ever hoping for. I don't know how to thank you for investing so much time and thought into my army! I will make sure the Emperor gets word of your great deeds in assisting your fellow battle-brothers!

My pleasure, I should probably spend my time running my company, but this is more fun lol.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

You are probably very right about the sniper unit. They are the only part of my army that was fixed before I even had a Codex, as I just love the models. But it is true that they won't be of much use in this configuration considering the forces my army will be up against. I shall get rid of them and see where the points are best put to.

Good idea, you can still pick some up as the models do look good, but you wont find a use for a sniper squad untill larger games and you will certainly never find a use for just 5.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

The 4-ML-Devastator squad seems very potent to me if guarded by enough spare bolter marines and it's firepower is more than big enough to compensate the loss of one tactical squad. I'll see to that, thank you very much!

Its one of the most cost effective and easiest units to employ. I recommend it to everyone, hence why its in my sig.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

Moreoever I am most glad about all your hints concerning the equipment of my Sergeant and my Chaplain, for this is often the most difficult choice for me to make. I can imagine the battle-field and set-up and therefore by some rate judge which troop types and configurations make sense, but when it comes to utilizing special equipment and other more detail things, one is in need of far more experience than I can come up with. You can't possibly ascertain how grateful I am for all your advice!

That can indeed be very difficult. Fortunately most people here at LO have got wargear down to a science. Plenty of help is abound even if im not around.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

One more thing on the Sergeant: I gave incomplete information on that issue. Since both my friends switch between different army lists between games I don't feel bad doing so, too. Therefore, the Sergeant with the power weapon was only one configuration, which was intended to come to use against the Necron. My reasoning was that with exception of the Lord, all Necron units have an initiative value below 4, so it will make a difference if my Sergeant makes a handfull of kills before the enemy may strike. On the other hand against the Chaos Marines, whose units mostly share the initiative value of 4, it does not matter if I hit simultaneously with of after the enemy. So here, the power fist is clearly the better option.
Are these thoughts valid, or is the advantage of the power fist more important, even against low-initiative Necrons?

Not true, it is almost ALWAYS better to have a powerfist. Have you read the powerfist tactica? In any case the short of it is, your sergeant isnt an IC, hence you choose when he dies (barring certain circumstances like him being the only model in base to base with an IC). What that means is, say take your bike squad, before the sergeant bites it, you can choose to remove the 2 normla bikers, then the attack bike and then the melta bikers. Only then are you forced to remove the sergeant. So, unless your oponent can go through 6 T5 3+ save wounds in one turn, your powerfist WILL get to attack. Check the tactica for a greater explanation.

As to the different races, consider it this way: Necrons are freaking terrible in close combat except lords and C'tan. Pariahs are junk as they only have one attack. So in general, we, as SM, ,have very little to worry about from Necrons in close combat. Getting 4 attacks before or after they attack will make little to no difference in the end. Wounding on a 2+ however, certainly does make a difference as oposed to a 4+ or even a 3+. More importantly, Immortals, lords and Destroyers all have T5. If you do face these in close combat, and honestly you should try to as they are terrible in close combat (except the lord) the double strength will help take them out.

As to chaos, I would still take the fist. Technically the sword may be better as your guaranteed to get your attacks in. Now, so long as your not being charged by a full berserker squad, chances are you wont lose the entire bike squad and your fist will get its attacks anyways. Either way, consider this: your oponents HQ, without demonic toughness (find out if he has it) is T4. Guess what happens if you get to charge him with your re-rollable pfist? He turns to goo. Instakills are a great thing to have on your side. It also gives you a way to take out vehicles with the squad in close combat. Without it, getting into close combat with a dreadnought will be the death of you as you wouldnt be able to hurt it. In any case, the 5 point difference in the end is minimal and the benefits of a powerfist far outway a power sword for the oponents your facing.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

About the Assassin: I had not known that I am obliged to also field an Inquisitor as I am not that much into its rules and none had mentioned it here before you. Then, of course, I will have to drop that thought again. And no worries: it doesn't make me sad one bit.

Good, it would have just disapointed you in the end anyways. It looks great on paper, but in practice it rarely does much.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

As for traits: I have considered some of them, but I did not find it necessary to decide on them yet, since - as you said - my army as it is works well without. Let me thank you for your thoughts and tips on that, I will gladly look back upon them when the time for enlargement to 1,500 points has come.
The only trait I might use is to "uphold the honour of the Emperor". This is because the Chaos Marine player friend of mine is the only veteran of W40K in my group (the Necron player is as bloody a beginner as me) and he has never posessed too much terrain. That resulted in 3 lone buildings in the middle of the battle-field making up for all terrain there was in the Necron players first (and only) game. So cover saves will be largely unavailable anyway, and a 6+ invulnerable save against AP3/2/1 weapons might come in handy if you get a lucky roll.
Of course this situation is unbearable and I have already put more thought into designing new terrain than in coloring my own troops. So hopefully the battle-field will be more deserving of its name when I begin play.

That has to be one of the worst traights in the book actually. Be sure to read what squads get its benefit . Secondly, cover saves are the way to go. Technically you should be playing with 25% cover, thats the accepted (and fair) ammount. Each oponent should be allowed to place half the terrain pieces. So, if your playing on a 4'x4' board, you should have 1'x1' of terrain. say thats 4 pieces of equal size, you get to place 2 of them and your oponent gets to place 2 of them. This will let you get a good cover save bonus when needed. Placing these terrains in your deployment zone and using your first turn to move a squad into each can really save your ass. Gives you an invulnerable save against shooting, and when those khorne go to assault you, you will go first unless the have frags, in witch case you go at the same time. As I believe khorne has many units possesed of Furious charge that can be an increidble bonus as otherwise they would be going before you.

Originally Posted by Red Archer

I will now have to be going through my troops to see what options remain after cutting down equipment and the scout troopers, as you suggested. Then I shall implement the missile squad and see how it goes! It will take me some time, but I will post my new list as soon as it is ready, and of course I shall inform you how the Marines prevailed against the enemies of the Imperium!
Hopefully your tactical hints here and in all your tactica (of course I have read them) will stay in my head long enough for remembrance in the midst of battle, enabling me to crush all xenos and heretics as is our very duty.

Good, glad to help. May the Emporer protect

[hero]

ok to start try to combine the squad numbers together because 5 men are going to run away pretty quikcly and by combining them will lessen that possibility other than that it's a god start and i wouldn't include an assasin in such a low point game as it would be a huge points drop
nice job and good luck ( u will need it in cc against khorne bezerks)

[Chaosbrynn]

Originally Posted by hero

ok to start try to combine the squad numbers together because 5 men are going to run away pretty quikcly and by combining them will lessen that possibility other than that it's a god start and i wouldn't include an assasin in such a low point game as it would be a huge points drop
nice job and good luck ( u will need it in cc against khorne bezerks)

Because of ATSKNF, marines dont relly need to worry about running so long as they arent placed at the board edge. Secondly, both armies he is facing are less shooty then he is and so casualties from shooting arent that much of a concern. He will have to loose 2 men before he makes a morale test and as marines have decent moral wont always fail them. So long as he sets up more then a single fallback distance from the table edge hell be fine. Especially since hell still be able to fire as ATSKNF makes you count as stationary when you fall back.

For the oponents hes facing and the route hes chosen to fight them, 5 man squads are perfectly fine.