700+ points, Raven Guard - friendly

[nalrush]

After collecting random figures from all sources, I have finally decided upon creating an actual army. I enjoy the sci-fi look of the Space Marines, but I also like the idea of wading into battle as though I was a Khorne army. I think the helmet-less Space Wolves look somewhat silly, so I finally decided upon a Raven Guard army with a swarm of Assault Marines

I have several questions specifically, although any input in general would be very very welcome.

First: I don't really know what to use for my HQ, but would the Veil of Time be useful?
Second: I don't really know what to do with the troops, since I can't put Assault Marines there, but I suppose the Scouts can fill some sort of role.
Third: If I keep the Scouts, should I give Terminator Honours to the Seargant? If so, what weaponry and equipment?
Fourth: I believe I can basically add assault squads to this setup up into the 1100+ range, after which, if I still feel like expanding, I can take Shrike and his posse. What are your thoughts on them?


HQ:
Librarian Codicier with Veil of Time
110 points

TROOPS:
5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

FAST ATTACK and/or ELITES:
5 Assault marines with Melta-bombs and "Furious Charge"
135 points
(take multiples of the above squad until I have enough points filled out)

[DEADMARSH]

I'm not sure what size games you'll be playing, but I think the librarian is a little much for games below 750 or 1,000. For the same amount of points, you could take a reclusiarch with a jump pack, which would go along nicely with your assault marines.

What weapons do the scouts have? What kind of role do you envision for them? Right now, it looks like they're there to take up the two troops slots in the FOC.

I know you gave your assault marines melta bombs, but I think you're going to want to look into some dedicated anti-vehicular firepower. Skimmers and fast vehicles will probably be pretty hard to catch even with an assault squad, and you can bet more marine opponents than not will have at least one LST in these lower point games.

[brushman]

First: I don't really know what to use for my HQ, but would the Veil of Time be useful?

I haven't actually used it in a game yet, but on paper it seems like it would work well and I plan on trying it out in my next battle.

Third: If I keep the Scouts, should I give Terminator Honours to the Seargant? If so, what weaponry and equipment?

I usually use my sergeant the same way you have set yours up. (with Terminator Honours and powerfist.

Fourth: I believe I can basically add assault squads to this setup up into the 1100+ range, after which, if I still feel like expanding, I can take Shrike and his posse. What are your thoughts on them?

Personally, I like Assault Squads and plan to get some to expand my space marine force.

Librarian Codicier with Veil of Time

Hmm. You could consider giving him jump packs and going with one of the Assault Squads, but its your choice. Also, you could add in a Bolt Pistol for a cheap cost.

5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

On my scouts, I like to have sniper rifles + heavy/special weapon + sergeant like the one you have. That way they can infiltrate forward, and with the sniper rifles maybe pin some units and do some damage with the heavy/special weapon(s). Then, if they get into combat the Sergeant can do some damage with the Powerfist.

5 Assault marines with Melta-bombs and "Furious Charge"
135 points
(take multiples of the above squad until I have enough points filled out)

I think taking less squads of 8 would be more efficiant then taking more squads of 5, simply because they would have more staying power, and would break less often. Also, they would be able to take some casulties and still be effective in combat, where as if you take 3 casulties in a squad of 5 they won't be that great in combat because they'd only have 2 marines left.

Note: I'm relativley new to Space Mariners, therefore I don't have much game experience with them so my advice may not be 100% correct.

Anyway, goodluck and enjoy your new space marine force!

Cheers!
Ben

[spongebob]

I would take a l.s.t and I would give the codicer bolt pistol (for the extra attack) and f.o.t.d. Also DDEADMARSH there is nothing wrong with the h.q points cost. Its around what people usually spend (unless there chaos)

[Chaosbrynn]

Originally Posted by nalrush

First: I don't really know what to use for my HQ, but would the Veil of Time be useful?

Yes, but not as useful as a chaplains litanies of hate ability. You should really go with a chaplain. Cheaper (important im small games) FAR more effective with assault squads (important for raven guard) and better survival chance in close combat with fewer upgrades (rosairuses 4+ invulnerable save).

Originally Posted by nalrush

Second: I don't really know what to do with the troops, since I can't put Assault Marines there, but I suppose the Scouts can fill some sort of role.

Well, you only have 2 options really. Tactical squads or Scouts. Yes scouts are cheaper in the end, but your troop selection is a very important backbone of your list. As your playing ravenwguard, wich focuses on assaults, you should take tactical squads with anti-tank weapons to soften up your oponents before your assault squads get to them. Be sure to check out the tactical squad tactica.

Originally Posted by nalrush

Third: If I keep the Scouts, should I give Terminator Honours to the Seargant? If so, what weaponry and equipment?

That really depends on what else your fielding and how large the scout squads are. At the moment, I think it owuld be in your best interest not to and just give them bolters. Of course, I think you should ditch emm for some long range tactical shootiness instead.

Originally Posted by nalrush

Fourth: I believe I can basically add assault squads to this setup up into the 1100+ range, after which, if I still feel like expanding, I can take Shrike and his posse. What are your thoughts on them?

Rule #1 of close combat squads: ALWAYS field the maximum number of models in the squad. This will ensure your squad has enough models when it reaches close combat, will protect your hidden fist for that much longer (rule #2 of close combat squads is always give a fist to the sergeant) and wont be outnumbered as easily at the end of combat. It ios doubly important with an attached chapain as his abilities make having more attacks quite effective and of course, making the squad fearless, if they are outnumbered, they will take wounds instead of falling back.

Originally Posted by nalrush

HQ:
Librarian Codicier with Veil of Time
110 points

Switch for chappy with jump pack bolt pistol and frag grenades.

Originally Posted by nalrush

TROOPS:
5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

5 Scouts armed with Frags. Seargant with Terminator Honours, Power fist/weapon
93 points

If these are gonna stay and stay as close combat squads, they need more men in them. As is, it is far to easy to annihilate the entire squad ESPECIALLY when you consider their 4+ armor save.

Originally Posted by nalrush

FAST ATTACK and/or ELITES:
5 Assault marines with Melta-bombs and "Furious Charge"
135 points
(take multiples of the above squad until I have enough points filled out)

Again, requires more men. I would drop the melta bombs in favor of some long range anti tank fire. Melta bombs allow your oponent to set the to hit roll (by moving the vehicle) chances are, it will require a 6 to hit with the melta bombs while if you shoot the darned thing, you will always hit on a 3+ and can start doing so in most cases from turn 1.

[nalrush]

Thanks for the inputs! As I've said, I don't know what to do with the Scouts, so I've just put in something that would assault, like the rest of my army. If anyone has any suggestions on what holes they may fill that the assault marines can't cover, that would be much appreciated!

I had hoped that I would not need shooters to take care of tanks, but it appears that is inevitable.

Finally, what should I equip the chaplain with? I suppose he must have a jump pack, but what else?

[<E!_Mance>]

Just give him a power fist or plasma pistol to go with that crozier.

[Chaosbrynn]

Originally Posted by nalrush

Thanks for the inputs! As I've said, I don't know what to do with the Scouts, so I've just put in something that would assault, like the rest of my army. If anyone has any suggestions on what holes they may fill that the assault marines can't cover, that would be much appreciated!

Concentrating on only one aspect is definately a weakness. You can be primarilly assault but it would be foolish not to include some long range ability.

Originally Posted by nalrush

I had hoped that I would not need shooters to take care of tanks, but it appears that is inevitable.

Its not inevitable. Its just smart. You can try and use fists and melta bombs solely, but youll have much more success with shooting.

Originally Posted by nalrush

Finally, what should I equip the chaplain with? I suppose he must have a jump pack, but what else?

Chaplain: Crozius, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Jump pack. - 122/137 depending on wounds.

You can also go with terminator honours for the extra attack if you wish.

I wouldnt put a powerfist or plasma pistol on him in such a small game. He likely wont need it, it costs quite a few points, and in the case of the plasma pistol, can get your 100+ point model killed.

[<E!_Mance>]

True...

[nalrush]

Here is a revised list with some considerations from the feedback.

HQ
Reclusiarch w/ Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Frag Grenads
107

ELITES
9 Assault Marines w/ Furious Charge
225

TROOPS
5 Scouts armed with (1 power fist, 3 sniper rifles, 1 missile launcher), Terminator Honours
118

5 Scouts armed with (1 power fist, 3 sniper rifles, 1 missile launcher), Terminator Honours
118

FAST ATTACK
3 Bikes with 2 Melta-guns
116

This adds up to 700 points. Please note, 700 points isn't my limit, it's simply my "core", upon which I will add more things, like another 9 or 10 man Assault squad, for instance.

I now have listed infiltrated missiles and the bikes as anti-armour, as well as the suggested chaplain.