Shrike's Wing

[Archetype-]

Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis

Archetype, can you address this please? Any versions of armies with different choices in it are always interesting for me.

Gladly, Lost Nemesis. In the 3rd Edition Codex, Raven Guard were able to take Command Squads which you could load up with jump packs and lightning claws. I remember seeing a battle report somewhere using a 3rd Edition Raven Guard army, and it included that Command Squad. In the curent codex, this command squad is only possible if you take Shrike and his Wing.

I agree the Shrike model is great, but I always get a real sense of pride after I finish assembling my own characters and making up fluff for them. Shrike just doesn't get that done for me, and I see too many newberts getting into special characters. And just how common are plastic beak helmets?

In the end, special characters are only good for one thing: parts. I'd get Shrike's claw and jump pack, but not the model. Hell, I bought the Ultramarine's Chaplain Cassius just for the Crozius to put on my own Chaplain.

Victorus aut mortis,
-Archetype

[Lost Nemesis]

Thanks for answering. ^_^

And I agree, assembling your own HQ is always a good feeling.

Too bad I have yet to settle with an army to actually get the modelling done...

[Phalanx]

Personally, I'd take him just because he's a special character, just for fun. If I wanted a serious game, I'd use a custom master, but for a just for fun game that I don't care if I win or lose (odds are my Raven Guard will be doing a lot of training exercises with Ultramarines, so if Shrike "dies", then the Imperium isn't in peril). I do agree that he is a big points sink that will probably never make back his points.

[Tycho]

I was taking a second look at Shrike and his wing last night when i was lookinh through my codex and i have to a certain extent changed my views on him.Yes he and his wing are really expensive BUT they would be great against armies who are useless in cc.He would be great to use against a troop heavy Imperial Guard army because you infiltrate them and get the scout rule which means they will get a charge before the game begins and they will rip apart those guardsmen squads like nothing and annihilate them one at a time.So yeah i do think in some situations Shrike and his wing are very useful and can be effective if used right.
As said before though he is a awesome model to use for a custom Master anyway.

[Lost Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Tycho

I was taking a second look at Shrike and his wing last night when i was lookinh through my codex and i have to a certain extent changed my views on him.Yes he and his wing are really expensive BUT they would be great against armies who are useless in cc.He would be great to use against a troop heavy Imperial Guard army because you infiltrate them and get the scout rule which means they will get a charge before the game begins and they will rip apart those guardsmen squads like nothing and annihilate them one at a time.So yeah i do think in some situations Shrike and his wing are very useful and can be effective if used right.
As said before though he is a awesome model to use for a custom Master anyway.

I disagree...

'Guard armies would be particularly dangerous for Shrike and his wing. Why?

1) Earthshaker Cannon behind cover.

2) Battle Cannon at decent range.

3) Demolisher Cannon in his face.

4) Plasma Guns, Lascannons, Plasma Pistols, random power weapons, Meltaguns, Krak Missiles.

5) Your army will be outnumbered even more than normal due to the points put in this squad.

All those Lightning Claws are wasted vs. IG. Why? They have a 5+ armour save!! I mean, come on. Next, if I were the IG player and I knew you had anything even resembling Shrike, I'd throw a ten man squad at you so Shrike and his wing could chew it up - then I'd blast the living daylights out of him because he'd have nowhere else to go. Every Las, Plas, Demolisher, Battle, Earthshaker, Melta, and Krak weapon I have is going into that squad just because I know how much it cost and how much it will cost you if they are all destroyed.

[Tycho]

Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis

I disagree...

'Guard armies would be particularly dangerous for Shrike and his wing. Why?

1) Earthshaker Cannon behind cover.

2) Battle Cannon at decent range.

3) Demolisher Cannon in his face.
.

First off i wasnt really going discussing it really deeply although i did clearly state a Guard Army that wouldnt have many tanks.So Shrike could be able to jump from one squad to another annihilating them.But yeah it wouldnt really work if he had loads of heavy weapon platoons or if he is tank heavy but it would work in some cases.

[Viktor]

I would really love to use them against Tau, the little buggers don't like being in CC on turn 1... ^_^

[Archetype-]

Originally Posted by Tycho

First off i wasnt really going discussing it really deeply although i did clearly state a Guard Army that wouldnt have many tanks.So Shrike could be able to jump from one squad to another annihilating them.But yeah it wouldnt really work if he had loads of heavy weapon platoons or if he is tank heavy but it would work in some cases.

You're forgetting one thing, and that's massed lasguns. Guardsmen carry enough of them to make 379 points worth of power-armored Marines feel squeamish. On top of that, there's the ordnance, plasma, krak missiles, and lascannons Lost Nemises mentioned. The Guard player need only use the firepower necessary to wipe out that one squad (one Battle Cannon/Earthshaker Cannon/Demolisher Cannon tops) before he can turn the rest of his formidable firepower on the rest of your troops. You may kill one squad, but there's another two and a tank to back them up.

Originally Posted by Viktor

I would really love to use them against Tau, the little buggers don't like being in CC on turn 1... ^_^

And after one squad of Fire Warriors/Crisis Suits/Stealth Suits are dead, two things will happen:

1. Shrike and his Wing will be markerlighted by some smart Tau in a battlesuit.
2. The Tau player will shoot at an effective BS 5 at the expensive squad until it dies.
3. The Tau will direct the rest of their godlike firepower at the rest of the army, including submunition rounds at the Scouts you should be taking every game.

That is too fragile for 379 points, and that's just the things I can think of for IG and Tau. Eldar can really give me the willies with the firepower and close combat units that mow these pricey chaps down.

Regardless, I shall include tactics on how to use this overly-expensive unit in my revised Tactica. I'll still state that I'm strongly against using him, but I'll tell you how to use him.

Victorus aut mortis,
-Archetype

[Kirasu]

I'm not going to debate this much, obviously Shrikes wing is overpriced for what it does and I'm going to leave it at that

However, there is such a thing when a unit is too destructive. Like a full squad of assault terminators. This is such an instance and the main thing to remember here is... YOU DO NOT want to kill your opponent on the charge you want to decimate them and keep them in combat on round 1 and then kill them on their turn

Why? oh no you've killed a squad of IG.. k you consolidate d6 and the rest shoot you to hell because you're in range of all the special weapons too... CONGRADULATIONS

[Phalanx]

Point taken. Also, Shrike's wing is only good if your attacker and get 1st turn. That way you can assault before being shot, and if the opponent clumped some units together, you might be able to do a multi-charge or something. Shrikes Wing could also do wewll against a stealer-less (or if you kill all the stealers) nid army. You could hit Warriors, gaunts, everything and just go combat to combat all game. Even tyrants and fexes would go down to that many power weapons (unless you roll like I do...). And nid long range isn't too deadly.... though Shrike is pretty much on a suicide mission. Set him up so he could get the warriors and zoans while staying away from the big ones. If the enemy goes for him, then after they will have to go through that much more shooting. Otherwise, you now have a flanking unit.

He is still pretty overpriced, but this is probably one senario where he might make back his points.