Shrike's Wing

[Silver Wings]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Point taken. Also, Shrike's wing is only good if your attacker and get 1st turn. That way you can assault before being shot, and if the opponent clumped some units together, you might be able to do a multi-charge or something. Shrikes Wing could also do wewll against a stealer-less (or if you kill all the stealers) nid army. You could hit Warriors, gaunts, everything and just go combat to combat all game. Even tyrants and fexes would go down to that many power weapons (unless you roll like I do...). And nid long range isn't too deadly.... though Shrike is pretty much on a suicide mission. Set him up so he could get the warriors and zoans while staying away from the big ones. If the enemy goes for him, then after they will have to go through that much more shooting. Otherwise, you now have a flanking unit.

He is still pretty overpriced, but this is probably one senario where he might make back his points.

Tyranids can take almost exclusivly I5 units, including warriors with lighning claws, I6 Hive Tyrants and gaunts that can punch 96 I5 S4 attacks on you.

Plus as long as your opponent spreads his units out 7" or more then you can't massacre into them.
Plus you really want to beat them in thier turn so you can consolidate, move and charge. Against most armies you wont be able to do that.

[Phalanx]

4 wing + shrike= 22 attacks with re-roll wounds and stuff. Only a large squad could survive that. And as for I 5 nids, that makes the broods expensive. Shooty warriors tend to have I 4, st, and a gun. No problem. I 5 gaunt squads can be a problem, and same with leaping warriors, but you would target leapering warriors and stealers first. Fexes would die to the sheer amount of attacks (probably...), gaunts that charge will be people not going at your lines to allow you more shooting at MCs, if the leaping warriors stay back then the gaunts will have less synapse if they charge you. HT can be a problem, but generally I think they would have I 5, not 6. The I 6 upgrade is pretty expensive, and a flying tyrant would be better served charging your lines, not Shrike and his team. If the enemy wants to kill Shrike and his wing, they would have to use several times their number in nids, or bring in a tyrant. Thats 2 less guns shooting you. Also, unless they deploy on the long board edge, nid squads will be fairly close together because of their size. Pretty much the assault is made to delay the nids to get more shooting or to make them come more waves so they are easier to handle. This is probably only a good tactic in 1500+, though, and taking out the stealers and leapers 1st turn is the main priority. Shrike and his squad can clean up the guants and shooty warriors no problem.

[Tycho]

I have a new idea of a way to use Shrike but Shrike alone not Shrike acompanyed by a wing.
He may also be useful by taking out enemy vechiles by using his melta grenades which act the same way as melta bombs. Take a Landraider for example he could destroy and then use it as cover.Instantly earing his points back plus more.Then using the tank as cover he cant be shot at for that turn.Then the folowing turn he could charge any in range squads.
Now this tactic may not be the best one in the world and it wont work all the time but i think it would be pretty effective.

[Archetype-]

Originally Posted by Tycho

I have a new idea of a way to use Shrike but Shrike alone not Shrike acompanyed by a wing.
He may also be useful by taking out enemy vechiles by using his melta grenades which act the same way as melta bombs. Take a Landraider for example he could destroy and then use it as cover.Instantly earing his points back plus more.Then using the tank as cover he cant be shot at for that turn.Then the folowing turn he could charge any in range squads.
Now this tactic may not be the best one in the world and it wont work all the time but i think it would be pretty effective.

An unsupported IC all by himself in enemy territory is not going to last beyond turn one the way you describe it. For it to work, a lot of things have to happen that you cannot control.

1. You have to get Infiltrate as one of the scenario special rules.
2. Your enemy has to set up his armor in a clear area, free of difficult terrain on all sides.
3. You have to get first turn.
4. You have to get a six or higher on 2d6.
5. You have to roll a 6 on the Glancing table or a 4 or 5 on the penetrating hit table.
6. The enemy has to be stupid enough not to point a krak missile or lascannon at you for one whole turn.
7. The enemy does not engage you with his own assault troops (and hidden power fist).
8. The enemy neglects to move any of his squads out of charge range.

That leaves way too much to circumstance and luck for my tastes. We still have the more-than-likely result of Shrike falling to a unit costing as little as 115 points (Tactical Squad) or an armored unit costing 125 points (Basilisk w/indirect fire). I'll take a non-infiltrating Assault Squad with a custom Master/Chaplain/Librarian, thank you very much.

Victorus aut mortis,
-Archetype

[Phalanx]

The only real problem with Shrike alone is that he's so expensive and without an iron halo. If he had a halo then he'd probably be worth the points in most situations. As he is without it, though, he's too fragile compared to other commanders.

[Tycho]

Originally Posted by Archetype

1. You have to get Infiltrate as one of the scenario special rules.
2. Your enemy has to set up his armor in a clear area, free of difficult terrain on all sides.
3. You have to get first turn.
4. You have to get a six or higher on 2d6.
5. You have to roll a 6 on the Glancing table or a 4 or 5 on the penetrating hit table.
6. The enemy has to be stupid enough not to point a krak missile or lascannon at you for one whole turn.
7. The enemy does not engage you with his own assault troops (and hidden power fist).
8. The enemy neglects to move any of his squads out of charge range.

Half of that i didnt get.Have to roll a six or higher on 2d6?To do what?you have to roll a 6 on the glancing table or a 4 or 5 on the penetrating table?To do what destroy it yes but you can immoblise it aswell and then ave another crack next turn.How can they point a kra or lascannon at himif his taking cover behind the tank out of LOS?
The enemies assault troops?Well obviously your not going to infiltrate him right near your enemies best assault troops.
He could also be very useful at taking out enemy heavy weapon squads.
And yes things do involve risk.The whole game revolves around a dice.Its based on luck and risk.

[Tycho]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

The only real problem with Shrike alone is that he's so expensive and without an iron halo. If he had a halo then he'd probably be worth the points in most situations. As he is without it, though, he's too fragile compared to other commanders.

Yeah thats true aswell.

[Kirasu]

The problem with Shrike is that he's not a chaplain and nothing you give him will change that

[Phoenix Guard 1988]

I'm not really a Raven Guard player, but couldn't you max out his squad and get them into cc and then deepstrike 2 maxed out assault squads in as soon as possible as support? It would be costly (points wise) and risky having Shrike their alone for pretty much 2 turns, but if you do it right, you could grind the enemy against your normal marines and have them in a deadlock where Shrike could be more effective.

[Archetype-]

Originally Posted by Tycho

Half of that i didnt get.Have to roll a six or higher on 2d6?To do what?you have to roll a 6 on the glancing table or a 4 or 5 on the penetrating table?To do what destroy it yes but you can immoblise it aswell and then ave another crack next turn.

Check page 67 of the BGB. those rolls are the only favorable results for you if you were to assault a Land Raider. Crew Shaken and Stunned are negated by PotMS, and the Land Raider is free to try to tank shock Shrike next turn. Immobilisation doesn't count for beans as there's still the sponson twin-linked lascannon pointing right in his face because you're trying to minimaze LOS as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Tycho

How can they point a kra or lascannon at himif his taking cover behind the tank out of LOS?

A canny opponent will have LOS to all sides on his Land Raider (or other tank), so hiding behind the tank isn't an option there. Then there are skimmers like Dark Eldar Ravagers (who can pack enough AP 3 weaponry to make a mockery of Shrike's power armor) and jump infantry that can ignore whatever dificult terrain they come across.

Originally Posted by Tycho

The enemies assault troops?Well obviously your not going to infiltrate him right near your enemies best assault troops.

Ever hear of Ork Slugga Boyz, Khornate Berzerkers, Grey Knights, or Black Templars under the effects of "Accept the Challenge, no matter the cost?" They need not be the best, they just need to be better at it than Shrike or have enough numbers to balance the fact that they aren't. Such units are in abundance if 40k, and you never can tell when or how many your opponent might bring to the table.

Originally Posted by Tycho

He could also be very useful at taking out enemy heavy weapon squads.

See the point I made about enemy armor. It applies to heavy weapons teams as well.

Originally Posted by Tycho

And yes things do involve risk.The whole game revolves around a dice.Its based on luck and risk.

That's true, but that the type of risk I just outlined makes it too much of a long shot. There are too many things you can't control the outcome of, and half of them depend on the caliber of your opponent. All it takes is one bad dice roll or a canny opponent to ruin this plan, and both of those are quite common in the grim darkness of the future. And just a reminder from a relic:

Originally Posted by 3rd Edition Codex: Space Marines, pg. 18; on the weaknesses of HQ choices

Weaknesses: They all ideally need a supporting squad and have a high points cost.

Thankfully, the same holds true in Fourth Edition. Shrike would die a hell of a lot faster without his Wing providing "ablative armor". For that matter, no HQ should ever be alone for the same reasons, invulnerable save or not.

Originally Posted by Phoenix Guard 1980

I'm not really a Raven Guard player, but couldn't you max out his squad and get them into cc and then deepstrike 2 maxed out assault squads in as soon as possible as support? It would be costly (points wise) and risky having Shrike their alone for pretty much 2 turns, but if you do it right, you could grind the enemy against your normal marines and have them in a deadlock where Shrike could be more effective.

That would be folly for two reasons. Firstly, a maxed out Shrike & Wing costs a whopping 634 points, and two regular, properly equipped Assault Squads would run another 520 points. That's 1,154 points on three selections, which is far too pricey for anything but mega-battles. Secondly, Assault Marines can only shoot once on the turn they Deep Strike, and you want Assault Marines in melee as soon as possible.

Victorus aut mortis,
-Archetype