Marine newbie? Don't know which Chapter yet?

[<E!_Mance>]

Major disadvantages.
ASPIRE TO GLORY: Only 0-1 Terminator squad OR Dread. Only 0-1 Vets. No relics (Iron Halo). Not with Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients.
Often heralded as the worst disadvantage there is. But if you want to go for a fluffy army, this one can;t be beat. You can't take assault Termies or Termie command squads, and you can barely fir the elites bar with the full list you can take. That and the lack of an Iron Halo or Terminator Armour. This weakness is severe, so if you want a Termie squad with this divergence, go full power. Everything Chainfists & 2 assault Cannons. When you have an Elites choice, be prepared to use it to it's fullest.

EYE TO EYE: Only 0-1 Land Speeder wing OR Attack Bike Squad OR Bike squad. Not with 'swift as the wind'.
The most often taken weakness. Luckily, there is no cap on Scout bikes or Assault Marines, so you can still take heaps of them. Some see this as the 'anti-cheese' trait, as it caps having those infamous LSTs to 3, in 1 unit. Makes a balanced army, that's for sure.

FLESH OVER STEEL: Only 1 tank from this list: Whirlwind, Predator Destructor, Vindicator, Land Raider Domintor (basic). Each transport (including Drop-pods) takes up a Fast attack slot.
Wow. Another crippling one there. Only do this if you have infiltrating Dev Squads or some other way to ignore using vehicles. This kind of trait is welcomed by those who hate SM vehicles, so expect to have a lot of infantry.

Minor Disadvantages.
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR: Like 'never despair', but working for the enemy.
If your opponent feels the time given isn't enough to blast you out of the water completely, this extra turn that comes up 50% of te time will certainly help. Not that major if he needs to buy some more time, ut there is still the chance of being wiped out because of it.

DIE STANDING: No Drop pods.
Simple. If you don't like drop pods, take this 'disadvantage'.

FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH: May have 1 less terrible trinity (Elites, Fast attack, & Heavy support), than the regular FoC you're building for.
This one puts a hamper on your FoC, with some organisations leaving you without entire unit types. If you're confident, or want a real disadvantage, then this is the one for you. The best way around this is to use your Troops to their full advantage, & plaayers who will like to do this anyway won't feel the pain.

HAVE FAITH IN SUSPICION: No psykers. No allies with Psykers.
If you hate Librarians, go for it. The Jump-pack Chaplain is more acclaimed anyway. This trait removes a HQ choice from your codex. So if you want this trait, be warned: Enemy psykers aren't stopped EVER, no psychic hoods.

HAVE PRIDE IN YOUR COLOURS: No 'Infiltrators' or 'Scouts' rules. Not with See but don't be seen.
Forces you to footslog. You play the game the way it was meant to be played, no flitting about in multiple areas at once, you start from the start. Can be really annoying and removes much of the Scouts' purpose from the game, but it's there.

WE STAND ALONE: No allies.
You're on your own. This trait is usually taken by those who see Marines as good enough on their own (which they should be). I'm not sure how this works in mega-battles...

<E!_Mance>'s guide to Trait Mixing.
Don't just go all higeldy-pigelty with the disadvantages. Find them according to your way of playing. And since the best way to teach this is by showing is to give 3 examples of traits in my area:

1. HEED THE WISDOM OF THE ANCIENTS; TRUST YOUR BATTLE-BROTHERS; EYE TO EYE; WE STAND ALONE. My own traits. I like to use my Veterans & Termies (2-1 split) and still want a Dread. This lets me. Also, if I want just a few Elites, and want 2 Dreads, I can take that. And any Dread can be Venerable (which keeps them alive longer OR blows them up better). My troops like to run up to bolter range & open fire like crazy & rob enemy assault specialists of a charge. I don't like Land speeders or Bike squads, & The only thing other than Marines I'd use is either a Culexus or Vindicare, but I can easily live without them.
2. TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM; CLEANSE & PURIFY; ASPIRE TO GLORY; DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR. This player likes to assault. He loves it. His tactical squads are decked out like Jump pack deprived Assault Marines with their 2 flamers or Meltaguns coming from a drop pod. His leader is a Chaplain with Artificer armour (who needs Terminator armour?) leading a beefy Rhino-suited command squad along with 2 more assaulty Tacitcals. He is the epitome of assault-loving Marines in his own mind, and he can use it well.
3. BLESSED BE THE WARRIORS; DIE STANDING. This player uses so many assault Marines it's not funny. And he deepstrikes them all, too. With this, he has no need to use Drop pods, leaving the rest of his army to advance less molested then usual.

So there you have it. Traits explained.
So if you want to make your own Chapter, but are still unable to decide, PM me with what you want to do.

[GunTAG]

Anyone got a review of the Black Templar? I'm trying to decide between a descendant BT chapter or my own trait mix for a potential army. Any detailed reviews of the Crusaders would be helpful.

[<E!_Mance>]

There was a time when Reflex was the one to turn to for that.

I'll see if he can help you out, stay frosty!

[Reflex]

Black Templars

where to start, here: ok balck templars are a mega assaulty army. remember if you want to play balck templars, if you can assault do it, shooting always comes second. they codex was designed to take the fight to the enemy. here is the lo down on the units.:

Emperors Champion

ok your wondering what vow to take, there are 4 and yes it is hard to choose which one, especially against which foe.

Uphold the Honor of the Emperor

this vow is good for 2 reasons. its cheap, you only have to pay 100 points for your EC, and everything, everything has a 6+ invulnerable save. this is a good vow if you want to save points and play aginst othre space marines, imperial guard (cannons, ouch), Eldar(dark reapers) and dark eldar( lots of ouch units) (good vow for 750points up)

Abhor the witch

fairly exspensive, but you get closer to the enemy if they have psykers, great for eldar and other psykick races. the only downside to the vow is the cost. but yet great for annoying psykick armies. good for medium points games (1500 points)

Suffer not the unclean to live

my favriout, not so exspensive so thats a good start. ok yes the down side is you lose some initiative. but fear not the strength bonus comes in handy. this is a beauty of a vow aginst orks. there choppas tear through space marine armour, they have low initiative so your still fast (by 1) and the strength bonus comes in very handy. not to mention your power fists become strength 10!!! (this is my favriout vow, simply because i play orks most of the time)

Accept any challange no matter the odds

ahh yes, this is a great vow, good for larger points game because of the cost but no the less a nice vow. great for playing aginst marines. this vow can be used to fight aginst anything that is tougher than a marine and not alot is tougher than a marine.

HQ Choices

Castellan or Marshall
the basic leader for an army, tatical wise they are not as good as the chaplain but they have there advantages. they can be colse combat strong depending on what weapon you give them. the LD value of the castellan or marshall can be good for when you have to take your rightous zeal move. a higher leadership means less change of failing. they can provide some support in combat, so usually i deck my castellan out with a powerfist and terminator honors. this gives me 5 strenth 8 attacks on the charge. i usually put him in a crusader squad so he can use his attacks. i will also give him a plasma pistol so he can take down heavy infantry. in larger points games i will give him an iron halo so he can survive in combat a bit longer.

Chaplain
where would a black templars army be with out this guy. i always take one, i will give him a bolt pistol, terminator honors and a tank hunting bomb (either melta or krak depending on which kind of enemy i am facing) whats not to love, charge with a 20 man crusader squad, and they get to re roll failed hits. if you deack all your guys out with chainswords and bolt pistols thats a whopping 60 re rolled attacks on the charge if you canget them into the fighting zone. plus the 5 from the chaplain. combine this with my favriout vow, that comes to 30 strength 5 attacks on the charge and 30 strength 4 attacks!! neophytes are not affected by vows but they certainly pull there weight.

Elites

Terminators
terminators can performe 1 of 2 roles as far as this player is concerened. the standard terminator can perform a fire support role and an assault role. you can deck the squad of 5 out with 2 assault canons making them a fearsome unit. 8 assault cannon shots on the move can make your enemy freak out. as they have powerfists they can also performe a close combat role, but be careful, terminators are exspesive and when then go into combat your most likly to lose 1 or 2. so make sure that the standard termintor goes in aginst units that have no power wepaons as the 5+ invulerable save is not going to do a whole lot. i see that terminators are more of a counter attacking unit. i use mine as afire support base and then when the enemy is close i will charge them. this way they are weak from my shooting and they will have limited attacks.
Assaullt terminators are fun. one popular tactic (very dangerious) is to have a chaplain with a squad of 7 assault terminators all armed with lighting claws put in a land raider crusader. you roll them up to the enemy and assault them from the land raider, you will strike first because of the land raiders ability. here is the best part as you ruin into combat you get 28 lighting claw attacks, you get to re roll hits (because of the chaplain) and you get to rell roll wounds (lightning claws only) wile the chaplain then gets his 5 attacks. all these attacks are power wepaons. so these guys are best used to fight against nasty units like mega armoured nobs (dangerous) or striking scorpions and heavy armoured units. they will pump through the enemy like carbord. but this is a very exspensive unit. and this unit will be a foucus point of enemy firepower, so deployment is everything.

Sword brethren
dont bother

Dreadnoughts
awsome beasts
i have 2. these can be deadly. one way they can be used is to have it mounted in a drop pod, arm it with an assault cannon and powerfist. drop it behind enemy armour, hopefullt blow it up. and if it is still there in the next turn assault troops. these can peromre flawlessly. they can have 2 rolls on the battle field, tank hunter or head smasher, i favour the head smasher aproch myself. ecause i am a black templars player. dreadnoughts are good and i suggest you read alot about them on the internet and talk to games workshop staff about them. great units.

Troops
Crusader squad, 5 man squads dont work! 10 or more, at least 7 inititates. neophytes are good ebcause they are awomse little close comabt guys. arm the squad with a melta gun and powerfist. transports are not necesarily needed because of rightous zeal but if you want to have a rhino go for it.

Fast Attack
Bikes, i have never really used them....

Assault troops.
aginst shooty armies these guys are brilliant! dont worry about using them as tank hunters, just use them to kill infantry. drop them behind cover (not into it) then try and assault in turn 2. have squad of 5 so they dont look like a threat, give 1 a plasma pistol and one a power weapon, they take down infantry like tehre is no tommorow!

Land speeders
i dont care what anyone says, land speeder tornados with heavy bolters and assault cannons only. have them sit in cover and shoot down infantry (light to heavy) and have them kill tanks. the assault cannon rules.

Heavy support

Vindicators are good in cityfight, otherwise they literally get killed in turn 1 or 2. they dont have the best armour thats why they die easy.

Predators, i have an annahilator, with heavy bolter sponsoons. this is a resiliant tank. it can take down a tank if needed but it can cut a swath throught he ranks of infantry. once again the armour lets it down in open areas so keep it hidden.

Land raiders and Crusaders
yeah, crusaders are good but exspensive. either 14 crusader troops (10 inititates and 4 neophytes) with a chaplain is good, because remember the crusader is more of a transport tank than a tank.

the land raider is the same. but it can performe the role as tank hunter aswell.



that about raps it up. black tempalrs are pure assault. soo tank hunting is always a horrer to face, but we get close to the enemy, thats why meltaguns are good. there is a secret about black templars, always take flesh over steel. and you will win.

[marines]

i painted my space marines how i wanted but i wanted to know if i can still use mephisten of the blood angels in my army.

[Luminaru]

Originally Posted by marines

i painted my space marines how i wanted but i wanted to know if i can still use mephisten of the blood angels in my army.

As long as you are still using the Blood Angels rules.

-Doom

[Reflex]

i should add for black templars.

if you want to play a 750 point game. tell your oponent you want to play a 749 point game. thus way you do not have to take an emperors champion. yes he is good. but he is to exspensive for 750 point games. you could spend the points left over on more marines, or some vehicles say. but make sure you try to only play 749 points, and not 750.

[<E!_Mance>]

Say yeah.
Everybody listen to Reflex. He's high in demand and low in stock right now.
So, BT have a hidden annoyance, do they?

Oh yeah, and TRAAAAIITS!
Once you take them & make your armies, you'll find that you can't change back just at a whim. So pick carefully. Your decision will most probably be binding & permenant.

[Captain America]

Did Space Wolves miss out on some advantages that Space Marines recieved from the 4th edition codex? I hear their lords and chaplains don't have the cool abilities that codex/trait armies have now!

Someone post something on the 13th company, please!

[LordMephiston]

Yes, I believe Space Wolves did miss out on the 4th Edition Codex upgrades for their lords and chaplains. Hopefully they will come out with the Wolves 4th ed codex soon. Though at this rate it will probably be 2008 (DA are end of this year and I am praying BA will be next year) and knowing our luck the 5th Ed rules will be out sometime shortly after they finish the Wolves codex because heck if all the codex's are done why not revise the rules!