And They Shall Know No Fear

[Djones9916]

This may belong in the rules section, but since it only pertains to Marines, I thought to put it here instead.

Simple enough question though. If an enemy unit is within 6" of a SM unit that broke, would the SM Unit automatically regroup due to the ATSKNF rule?

My stance on this is that they will regroup. In the codex it is very explicit in stating that they will "ALWAYS" regroup. I checked in the rule book about the regrouping rules and the unit within 6" thing, and it only says that a unit is not allowed to "roll to regroup" if an enemy unit is within 6". With the ATSKNF rule, there is no rolling involved. Since the other rules affecting the rolling regroup do not apply to Marines, then this shouldn't prevent them from regrouping either.

Counter arguments?

[Silver Wings]

My interpretation is that SM can't regroup with enemies within 6".

It's the one major weakness if ATSKNF and allows people to 'run you out of town' by keeping close behind and harrying your retreat.

[Djones9916]

Whats the reasoning behind that though? Not trying to rules lawyer here, just trying to get the reason why. The rules seem pretty clear to me that they shouldn't be affected by it, so why are they?

[Silver Wings]

I dont have my Codex and Rulebook to hand, but do remember looking into it and concluding that 'no rallying within 6"' over-powered ATSKNF.

[<E!_Mance>]

Codex overrules basic rules.
"Will always regroup."
Done. Focusing on those two things, it's clear.

[Abael]

Actually, Marines cannot regroup if an enemy is within 6".

Space Marines automatically pass Morale tests to reagroup, and can take such tests even if the squad has been reduced to less than 50% by casualties, though all other criteria apply.

All other criteria include not being within 6" of an enemy and being in squad coherency. Also, this is in the BGB, not the codex; the codex states that marines get it and use it as described in the BGB, explains how it works in squads with non-space marines, and explains all-on-your-own checks.

[<E!_Mance>]

Still subject to Last man Standing tests.
They Will ALWAYS REGROUP after EACH fall back move.

The Codex says this as well. Making provisions for Servitors, too.
It says it's got the BGB version of the rule, then adds those other 2 points.

[Forsaken2544]

I am sorry E_Mance, but you are mistaken.

It says that ATSKNF is as described in the Universal Special Rules.

Point 1
The effect of servitors and familiars

Point 2
The effect on Last man Standing tests, in that Marines -DO- make last man standing tests, but at the end of their fall back move they regroup. (As opposed to regrouping at the beginning of the next movement phase. liek everyone else.) The -Always- in this instance is that you still get to regroup, if it is allowed by the conditions set forth. Basically Marines ALWAYS succeed in their test to regroup when they can make it. And because of ATSKNF The are only prevented from regrouping by 2 of the 3 prohibitive conditions.

Marines cannot regroup if they don't have a chance to. And the conditions allowing a chance are quite specific. Furthermore, the ATSKNF is equally specific as to which of those criteria are ignored.

[Bean]

Forsaken2544 is certainly correct. Marines (and other models with "And They Shall Know No Fear") will automatically pass morale tests to regroup just as it says in the BGB (it should be noted that the rules for ATSKNF are not found in the codex at all)

If they are never offered a chance to make a morale test to regroup, the fact that they would automatically pass such a test is meaningless.

In addition, it states that they may attempt to regroup (and automatically succeed in that attempt) even when having been reduce to below 50% by casualties. You'll note, however, that it never says they may attempt to regroup when within 6" of an enemy model, and it specifically states that all other criteria (which would include the criteria regarding enemy models within 6") apply.

Marines can definitely be 'chased off the board' after falling back by enemies who stay sufficiently close to them.

[Abael]

Which is exactly what I said. However, let's look at Last Man Standing (LMS) ATSKNF.

They will always regroup after each Fall Back move... p.21

This seems to say that in this instance (failed LMS), ATSKNF will kick in regardless of being within 6" of an enemy, since it's an auto-regroup (i.e. he doesn't need to meet the criteria).