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Is there any unit we agree isn't good

2K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  Frankmaneldar 
#1 ·
My recent scorps thread made me remember threads that were floating around here back in the old dex. Talking about how jetbikes and shining spears were good "if you knew how to use them."

However from the vantage point from our new dex where those units are HUGELY buffed and we still don't automatically suggest taking them, I think it's clear that back then they weren't so hot.

So are there any units that the community can agree are just sub-par these days. Sure they'll do something, and they may complement some other unit, but when you get right down to it they just aren't worth the points.

I'm thinking wraithguard (despite the buff) and storm guardians.
 
#2 ·
No.

Personally, in the new codex, I think that everything is more or less viable to use. Some units are substandard though since their use is limited, like Wraithguard, but basically it is a viable choice. I have used them a couple of times with success.

Anyone agree with me or do you think that something in the codex sucks nowadays? Except Star Cannons of course...
 
#3 ·
i dont see too many people taking guardians when DA are such a good choice. Removing Rubber-Hawking would make many people not like the Hawks a much, not many even use the now it seems.
 
#4 ·
I love my storm guardians!
11 of the lil' buggers with 2 fusion guns and a concealing spear-warlock, reasonably cheap and good at tank hunting and/or tying up a mob of weak shooty troops.
Plus the 5+ inv. save means that even when walking them across the board they survive better than most Eldar stuff.

Im really not a big fan of War Walkers, they take up a heavy slot that can be filled by something harder (WL's) faster (Falcons) or more shooty (Reapers). And yes im fully aware of the "3 Walkers with dual SL's being guided by a farseer" alleged amazingness, but if a stray bolter shot immobilises one, then the squad is a tad dead in the water....
 
#5 ·
Generaly new codex is quite a lot better and more balanced than the previous, and it's hard to find useless units. But my vote goes to wraithguards, sure they have devastating firepower but with a range of 12 and lack of CC abilities they are overpriced and easy to kill in CC.
The biggest flaw of the new codes is IMO the lack of vehicle upgreades, sure eldar upgreades are very good but they are to few compared to other races, and I don't understand why they even reduced their number in new codex. I was hoping they would add few more.
BTW do anybody know if GW plans to release a bonus codex for eldars (like craftworlds codex in the previous edition)?
 
#11 ·
BTW do anybody know if GW plans to release a bonus codex for eldars (like craftworlds codex in the previous edition)?
GW seems to be straying away from such things... I guess the variety was too hard to balance in 3rd.

Wish Chaos had the same phenomenon as Eldar seem to be showing... some of our units *cough*SPAWN*cough* seem virtually useless...
 
#6 ·
I agree that I think that every unit is viable in the new dex; however, there are a few units that are not worth taking because of so much better options, these are:
Wraithguard - they just don’t put out the needed fire power for their cost.
Warwalkers - while they are better then the previous codex they still can’t compete with the other heavy options.


Some units that I have seen mentioned above I have to argue with:
Storm Guardians: Can be very effective if you give them 2 flamers, and a warlock with destructor mounted in a wave serpent.
Guardian Defenders: if you give them a shuriken cannon they can put out more MEQ killing fire power per point cost then any configuration of dire avengers (with the lone exeception of when the DA blade storm and the exarch has dual shuriken cats).
 
#7 ·
you make some valid points, all that aside, the most common troop choice is DA, where guardians are slim on lists. i bet there are a lot of people who will go tell you strictly otherwise about the warwalkers i am sure of it.
 
#9 ·
What about some of the support weapons. Vibro cannons look like they could be fun. But D-cannon got nerfed, and the shadow weaver has been nerfed since the whole AP- rule and the "attacks count as coming from the direction of the launcher" business.
 
#10 ·
What about some of the support weapons. Vibro cannons look like they could be fun. But D-cannon got nerfed, and the shadow weaver has been nerfed since the whole AP- rule and the "attacks count as coming from the direction of the launcher" business.
Actually, I agree.
I proxied some support weapons for a recent apoc battle, and they did squat. nothing. nadda. zip.
Very disappointed.
 
#13 ·
I use the D-Cannon all the time, what do people think is wrong with it? IMO it is the only support weapon worth taking, and it always does wonders for me. Except against Tau of course, but I always lose against those [bad word in plural].
 
#15 ·
wraithguard seem expensive, they don't never really kill much, maybe a tank if they are really really lucky or 1 or 2 models, thats the most i've ever done, but they do soak up alot of fire, the other day i was using a 5 man wraithguard squard they were charged by a full spacemarine assualt squad (sargent with powerfist) and chaplain, by the time 2 wraithguard had fallen my avatar was in there and slaughtered all the marines.

been using a shining spear squad havn't done too well yet but i think shining spears are great now, i've got 2 squads of 5 in my armylist
 
#16 ·
Well, I play uber-fast Saim-Hann Eldar, but I used to play the regular list.... and looking at the new Codex, here goes:

Wraithguard - awesome when in range, useless in combat, tiny range. Fun in combat patrol though. Would never use normally.

Shadow Weaver - a lot of points for not much killing power. I don't think this thing balances its cost effectively - it just isn't good enough at causing casualties to justify taking it. Ditto its tank-mounted variant.
 
#17 ·
The War Walkers are absolutely fantastic in combat patrol games. They are incredibly cheap for the amount of str6 shots they pump out, which is devastating in such an environment. We play a bit of 500pt combat patrol around here, and my normal list (3 jetbikes with shuriken cannon, 3 vypers each with 2 shuriken cannons, and 6 war walkers each with 2 shuriken cannons) can muster 57 str6 shots a turn and block LOS to my vypers turn 1. I have played a few dozen games with this list, and the only game I lost was against a list of 45 Fire Warrios + Aun on a board with no terrain that blocked LOS to my walkers (and it probably would have been a draw if one of my walkers that tried to assault a fire warrior unit had not become immobilized going through dangerous terrain). The 4'x4' board in combat patrol combined with the scout move of the walkers means that I can usually target anything turn 1. I cannot think of a better 500pt combat patrol list than this, for any codex. It just dominates in that environment.

The War Walkers are also useful in Apocalypse when equipped with bright lances against opponents who like to field a lot of tanks and/or superheavies.
 
#18 ·
all are useful

None of the units particularly suck.

Guardians aren't as attractive because DA are now pretty good.

I don't take swooping hawks as much as I used to.

The only unit that is pretty much a "luxury" item is WG, but they can kick butt in certain arenas, but those are pretty few since dragons can hit hard too.

I never take an Autauch because I prefer Farseers and Avatars, but that's personal choice.

Cheers, and Merry (or happy if you prefer) Christmas or whatever holiday you may be celebrating.
 
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