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another killpoints question.

572 views 8 replies 5 participants last post by  InquisitorAffe 
#1 ·
sorry if this has been asked before, but a friend says his I.G. only take up one force orginization slot for multiple squads, i know nothing of ig rules, but i said every squad on the field is worth a kill point regardless of size or how many you can take per slot.

am i right? i don't know!

also, what about combat squads? i point each? or do i have to chase down 5 men across the board to get my point?
 
#2 ·
Kill Points are calculated not by Force Organization slots, but by units destroyed at te end of the game. (5th Edition Rulebook p91).

That should clear up both of your questions (as both IG squads and Combat Squads are treated as individual units in every way) ;)
 
#3 ·
Aye your friend may be referring to the 'ard boyz kill point system, which in my opinion works better and makes normal armies (not uber-competitive points denying armies, which trust me, guard can do it better than anyone) more equal in terms of kill points.

The rulebook way is every unit. That means his command squads are 2 KP as you get one for the squad and one for the independent character.
 
#4 ·
lol, i think me n my buddies are done with the killpoints thing, i just don't see what it has that victory points don't.

thanks for the help though. it may still come into play.
 
#5 ·
It punishes armies that overload on lots of individual units to be good at contesting/holding objectives in the other two scenarios. The idea is it forces armies to be 'balanced.' Too many expensive elite units? You're going to suffer in objective missions. No expensive elite units? You're going to suffer in KP missions. Consider Tau drones deployed from a Pirahna. In a mission where victory conditions are based purely on holding/contesting objectives, they are incredibly powerful and valuable. On the other hand, they give up a killpoint! It would be very broken to switch from KP to VP for annihilation but not also switch to a VP system for the objectives missions.

In my opinion the design uses a sledge hammer on a problem that could have been adressed with a scalpel, but that's the idea anyway.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Neither 100 lasgun shots nor 100 Ork mellee attacks kills 5 terminators 'on average.' The 5E wound allocation system also reduces total kills in a way that is far too complicated to model for this post =)

There will always be examples of rock-paper-scissors combos for specific units. However, to argue that a 4E style annihilation mission (enemy VPs killed + own VPs surviving) is fundamentally unbalanced towards some types or armies, is to argue that the entire point based army system is improperly implemented. Two armies of equal point value are by the definition of the design of the game evenly matched in that scenario.

There are 'good' armies and 'bad' armies, those are short comings of the implementation of the design in certain Codices (the authors are human after all), not a charactersitic of the mission. Whereas in other types of scenarios, an army may become good or bad due to characteristics of the mission favouring one attribute such as speed or toughness over others.

My original comments, remember, were in relation to the design goals of the mission, not the way it actually plays with 'competitive' army lists.
Compare:
The KP style annihilation is intentionally designed to be fundamentally imbalanced against certain types of armies as a contrast to other types of missions that are balanced toward those armies.
vs
The VP killed + VP surviving annihilation mission is purely 'balanced' in design by the core principles of the game. Issues with it are due to a codex imbalance, not an imbalance designed into the mission.


It's not good or bad, it just has a different purpose. If you replace KP with VP and continue to play the other two missions as written, you have unbalanced the overall mission design heavily in favor of some armies that, unsurprisingly, suffer the worst under KP! In attempting to even the playing field in one mission, you take away the disadvantage of being really good at the others.
 
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