Librarium Online Forums banner

Absolutely sick 5th ed IG rules abuse

2K views 34 replies 22 participants last post by  Xpyre35 
#1 ·
1 Chimera
2 Heavy Weapon Squads

The big abuse here is the new change to the heavy weapon squads - they're now one model.

Firing from a Chimera, with it's 5 fire points (5th ed IG p39: "Five models can fire from the Chimera's top hatch.") two mounted hvy weapon squads could fire 5 heavy weapons from that top hatch, plus the chimera's HB and ML.

Sure the Chimera can't be bought for them, but the hvy weapon squads can mount up in turn one, ready to fire in turn two.


Yes, it's a stretch on the rules, and the 5 fire points include the hull lasguns, but that's some bad wording, and I can see someone trying it.

Consider how many Chimeras and HWS you could put together in one force org...
 
#2 ·
2 squads in one Chimera? most you'll get in there will be one squad (only one unit can be transported). Now, you can have 2 IC's join that squad and they can fire as well, but if the Chimera moved that turn, none of those heavy weapons can fire.

If someone want's to pay 55 points for a bit of armor around their HWS, and they're still limited to the same firing restrictions when it comes to movement... how is this a problem?
 
#3 ·
Since it's a dedicated transport, it can't start the game in the Chimera. This means that the IG player sacrifices a whole turn of shooting to do this.

Secondly a Chimera is an expensive bunker for a heavy weapon squad. Sure, it makes it much harder to kill them, but any damage result prevents the squad from firing for that turn. Even in cover with camo netting (3+ cover save), it take up valuable real-estate.

Finally, Heavy Weapon Squads have been seriously nerfed, now that they are three gigantic low toughness models. A mulilaser can wipe the squad clean, and even one 6+ Strength shot can force them off the board, thanks to the low leadership. An autocannon can easily kill them in one round of shooting.
 
#4 ·
a) you loose a turn of shooting

b) you can't receive orders

c) if transport gets shaken/stunned then the HWS can also not fire

b) Better units to put in chimeras (PCS w/ 4 flamers, Vets w/ meltas, PBS, ect) that can take advantage of the mobility



Hardly can consider this "abuse".
 
#5 ·
as Has been said it takes most of the punch out of HWS to place them in a Chimera.


Much more powerful is the Assualt power combo.


Callidus assassin (one who gets bonuses from nearby psykers) a 6 or 8 PBS (with Primaris Psyker attached if you don't want a Company Command Squad)

Both can start in the Chimera Both are Assault weapons thus more mobility.

24" Range with Primaris 2D6 6/5
36" Ranger with PBS 6-9/D6

Plus all the bonuses of Callidus attacks.

That my friends is rules abuse.
 
#15 ·
Callidus assassin (one who gets bonuses from nearby psykers) a 6 or 8 PBS (with Primaris Psyker attached if you don't want a Company Command Squad)

Both can start in the Chimera Both are Assault weapons thus more mobility.

Wasn't suggesting using them inside was just suggesting using Chimera as a way to transport Psykers to where the culexus's location.
My bad then. Must have misunderstood you.
 
#7 ·
Assassins (both Culexus and Callidus) are Independent. You cannot put them with any squad or in any vehicles.
 
#8 ·
You know, I'm getting worried that pretty soon GW's going to put out an errata stating that only lasguns can fire from a chimera.

The model has fixed lasgun ports, and in the fluff it says "the models are actually firing from the fixed lasgun ports but for simplicity's sake you can measure from anywhere." Knowing GW's history of confusing fluff with rules, it seems pretty clear to me that they didn't think about it very hard and were intending only lasguns to be able to fire from the chimera's sides, just like in the old codex.

So all you people relying on chimera melta spam, don't say I didn't warn you when the dream comes crashing down...

Actually forget it, even if they did intend lasguns only, they're way too lazy to correct it.
 
#11 ·
You know, I'm getting worried that pretty soon GW's going to put out an errata stating that only lasguns can fire from a chimera.

The model has fixed lasgun ports, and in the fluff it says "the models are actually firing from the fixed lasgun ports but for simplicity's sake you can measure from anywhere." Knowing GW's history of confusing fluff with rules, it seems pretty clear to me that they didn't think about it very hard and were intending only lasguns to be able to fire from the chimera's sides, just like in the old codex.

So all you people relying on chimera melta spam, don't say I didn't warn you when the dream comes crashing down...

Actually forget it, even if they did intend lasguns only, they're way too lazy to correct it.
Dw dude, all you gotta do is fire any defencive weapon (ie storm bolter) from the hatch and it will count as open toped until you're next turn meaning that you can fire any and all weapons you like. xD

As for rule abuse. **** that man. Every man and his damn dog try find ways to abuse their codexes. I never do. I don't agree with loophole wins. but if people find one and they wanna use it then I say go for it.

And how is putting heavy weapons in a chimera rule abuse anyways?
If they are allowed to ride in it... allowed to shoot from it... then how is it abuse?

__________________
 
#12 ·
The open-topped rule is gone, actually, and besides, like others said, you can't fire 'em on the move anyway, and you can only cram one squad in there.
Having the three teams fire from a 55 point bunker after giving up at least one round of shooting (more, if the transport moves) is NOT an effective use of your teams.
Abuse? HA!

I also suspect this thread is a troll, and nothing more.

Congratulations, My Fellow Guardsmen: We're now thought of as Overpowered, we're getting troll threads complaining about us now.
 
#13 ·
Darn. meh. Like i said i dont use cheap rules so iive never looked it up since i read it before.

Yup we're pverpowered thats all i keep hearing aswel, man.
Takes the piss if you ask me.

Prooves that people were so used to "easy wins" over us that now that we're pummeling them they can't take it.

Who gives a **** anyways. We should but at the top of the damn food chain anyways!

P.s I tried flanking my leman russes with creed the other day.
Was god fun. people were scared lol.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I just wanted to say that the Imperial Guard were never weak - they are the only army that beat my Tau almost every single game. The guard have always been able to bring a ridiculous amount of firepower to bear.

So as far as I'm concerned, the new codex is very cool and has lots of new and scary options, but they are no more (or not much, anyway) powerful than the old guard.

So I just wanted to say that not everyone who doesn't play guard is crying "CHEESE!".
 
#17 ·
I still do not understand why having 5 FirePoints all of the sudden makes the Chimera "overpowered".

If you want to fire meltaguns from *inside* the Chimera, then you can only move 6", this gives the squad the same mobility as if they were walking... Just a bit more survivability. (remember, if you move over 6" the squad inside cannot fire!)

To take advantage of the Chimeras speed, you need to move 12", disembark, and shoot. Same goes with flamers and plasma.



As for IG being "overpowered", I have not seen anything to indicate this. I have heard people make this claim, but have not seen any serious argument backing their claim.

Are IG *better*? Yes of course. We can actually win KP missions, have some new abilities and better mobility.
Trying to walk into IG guns actually is a bad move now! IG actually has enough firepower to win battles in 5ed!

Does IG have weaknesses? Of course. It's just people have to try and exploit those weakness now. In our old codex (in 5ed especially) people really did not have to think that hard when fighting against IG, now they do (and the ones who do not loose).
 
#18 · (Edited)
Perhaps I am being thick, but where does it say in the codex what a commissar costs,I mean page number. I cant find it. Also, did anyone else notice that on page 98 in the part about Harker, it says that the squad that he is attached to may not take the grenadiers doctrine. Not to mention that in the WD imperial guard battle report it talks about doctrines as well. Did they really do away with them? Or are we expected to cherry pick the rules we like from both codices?


EDIT: I added the word 'costs' after the line "but where does it say in the codex what a commissar"
 
#19 ·
Veterans can take one of three "doctrines" - Forward Sentries, Grenadiers, and Demolitions. Commissars are listed under the infantry squad and platoon command headings (different options in each). Page 96/97
 
#21 ·
So how much does a commmisar cost. or is he free and you just pay for his kit?

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

So how much does a commmisar cost. or is he free and you just pay for his kit?
Never mind this post, I am really dumb. I am sorry for fouling the interweb with my filth post.
 
#23 ·
I've become a big fan of transforming Chimeras into fortified gun emplacements.

1 Vet squad with a Heavy Bolter team, 3 Sniper Rifles, and Harker = 150 pts
1 Chimera with 2 Heavy Bolters and a pintle Stubber = 65 pts
So for 215 pts you get 4 heavy bolters, a heavy stubber, and 3 sniper rifles with armour 12 As a troop selection.

Granted it's not broken but it's completely legal and I find it fun.
I just loved the feeling the first ime I used it and my opponent saw 18 attack rolls coming from a chimera sitting in the treeline 3 feet away from his main force. His return fire immobilized it.. :soldier:
OH NOES! My fortified heavy weapons can't move? KEEP FIRING!!!
 
#25 ·
if you're chilling in one spot anyways with that squad, you might as well stick them in cover on foot since they have stealth anyways... and if you want extra cover, stick a hq command squad next to them so you can have the veterans receive various helpful orders like 'get back in the fight' so you can go to ground whenever shot at and laugh it off with 2+ cover saves before getting back up to shoot next turn again.
 
#33 ·
Callidus assassin (one who gets bonuses from nearby psykers) a 6 or 8 PBS (with Primaris Psyker attached if you don't want a Company Command Squad)

Both can start in the Chimera Both are Assault weapons thus more mobility.

Anyway, I stand by what I said about it being fragile. The culexus is something of a fire magnet and won't survive a salvo of bolter fire or a successful charge by most units.

It's pricey taking the assassin, inquisitor lord, chimera, and psykers to get what will likely be one round of shooting at best, with inevitable targetting problems due to the assassin's short range, lack of transport, and need to co-ordinate with the position of another unit.
 
#34 ·
Lumbering Behemoth question

Under this rule it says you can fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapons you can normally shoot. So does this mean you can still fire the main gun even when shaken/stunned? I haven't been playing like that, just something i realised could go on.
 
#35 ·
Under this rule it says you can fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapons you can normally shoot. So does this mean you can still fire the main gun even when shaken/stunned? I haven't been playing like that, just something i realised could go on.
If your stunned or shaken, you are unable to fire any weapons. So with this rule, you can't fire the turret weapon, as there is no other weapon you can normally fire.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top