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Monstorus cav...monstorus infantry?? and the new ogre book

1K views 20 replies 10 participants last post by  MightisRight 
#1 ·
Can MC join MI? if sooooo

BSB on your choice of Evil mount with Throgg and his trolls - have fun no longer going stupid :D Im asking because Trolls have been brought up several times recently

Also..How are we going to go against the new ogres they are soooo good, fast, good strength, we dont have the shooting to stop them from getting the charge, they always stomp, and they always get impact hits on a charge, their new monster is viscous and they have a move and shoot cannon thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Ogres aren't so bad. One thing which is funnily awesome against them is the glaive of putrefaction - "I have 4 attacks and stomp on a hero... at strength 2". Stonehorns ain't so bad. A warshrine or talpres/Tz guy can hold him up all game. The ultimate thing against ogres, though, is lore of shadow. Especially pit of shades. From what I have seen the only units really to fear are ironguts (3 s6 attacks each and 3 wounds!!!) and mournfang cavalry (2+ armour save, 4s5 and 3s4 attacks each, plus stomp. And d3 impact hits each. Oh, and parry). Thank god we have throgg for those - 3d6 s5 no armour is awesome against mournfangs
 
#4 ·
Shadow works great, but don't undervalue the humble 3rd eye. I recently played a 3000 game against Ogres. He decided to be just over the top ridiculous and took a horde of Man Eaters. Thankfully, I knew he would and so took 40 Sword and Boards with the Flaming Banner. But what really swung several combats in my favor was stealing Bull Gorger (+1 toughness) and Trolls Guts (Regen). It is a fantastic lore with a really good lore attribute.

Also, the Puppet is even more mandatory than it was before. It is entirely necessary to help protect you on the turn that he pops the Hell Heart. And even so, don't expect to get a single spell through that phase. For example, a battle versus Demons that I watched the other day. Demons rolled 11 Power Dice and channeled for 12. Hell Hear goes and rolls a 5, thus a 25 inch radius, and catches 2 casters. Thus, the Ogre Player instantly got an additional 2 DD, and the Demon player lost 2D6 power dice (because all the miscasts cause you to lose power dice). At the end of it, the Demon player was left with a single power dice to the Ogre players 7 DD. And things could have been even worse if the demon player had not rolled well on the miscasts.
 
#5 ·
The style list that I run on a regular basis really didn't sweat the Ogres much. They are definitely a nasty book though, don't let anyone tell you otherwise - one of the harder fights I've had in a while. What's worse for me, is that I take the stance that little short of ASF is going to strip my ranks before I can attack back, but Ogres are all rocking Impact Hits on the charge. I run small units, so if I didn't start dropping Ogres in single rounds, the combined Impacts, Attacks, Monstrous Support, and Stomps were providing more than enough to get 1:1 attack/model coverage on my guys.

People might deride me for running Tzeentch as my main units, rather than a predominance of MoK/Halbs, but the 5++ from my Sword'n'boards saved my butt a ton of times. Rather than my typical practice of putting Festus in with the MoKkers for a "will it blend", I stuck the pudgy little rot-ball into one of the Tzeentch units, upping their damage output by a small margin, while using my Shadow Sorc to Okkam's/Wither the unit who needed the most help in combat. By the end of the game, my MoKkers were at the breaking point, I was flogging them for a solid 4 turns, setting up charges or taking reforms to keep them in the fight as much as possible. My Knights were pretty fatigued too, their first charge was straight into the face of some Belchers, since I needed their extra armor and ward (MoT&Blasted) to get through the barrage of fire. They broke the Belchers and overran them into the backfield, where they took out a Butcher and some escorting Bulls, and then turned around and got back into the mixer, saving one of my Tzeentch units and finally bailing out my MoKkers.

If I had tailored my list (I'd have dropped my Hellcannon and Warshrine), I'd have been able to brutalize my poor opponent. My lines wore thin because I field units of 15-18 models, rather than most people's preference of 18-24. He went mano-e-mano against a lot of my mainline units, and those which couldn't dish back to the serious hurt (MoKkers), stood back and whittled him down through attrition. At the end of the day, the average Bull is only T4 and doesn't rock much armor, and strikes after us. His lower Initiative and Multi-Attack/Multi-Wound bases are what lost him the game - Ogres take a beating, but if they lose 3 wounds, they lose 3 attacks in an instant, so one round of combat they might be smashing you to bits, but the next round you could score just 4 wounds and cost them 6 return attacks. It's a very strange experience, since we're used to Multi-A guys with single supporting attacks behind them.
 
#6 ·
Can MC join MI? if sooooo

BSB on your choice of Evil mount with Throgg and his trolls - have fun no longer going stupid :D Im asking because Trolls have been brought up several times recently
Basically, a character can always join a unit unless he is/is on a Monster or some other rule prevents him. So yeah, MC can join MI. The thing is, the character that joins the unit must be the same unit type as the unit he joins if he wants to be able to:

1. Get 'Look out Sir!' rolls. Cannonballs should be considered, a charmed shield and a good ward save are not bad ideas, nor are the Armour of Damnation.
2. Not get hit by shooting, if the character is not the same type shooting is distributed on a basis that you take all the hits, spread them out so that each model in the regular unit is hit once, then the character takes a hit, then you hit the unit again etc. If you have decent protection on your characters, this may not be a big problem.


Against Ogres, make sure you have a Regen/Ward save when you go up against them. It helps a lot. Other than that... what the other guys said is sound advice.
 
#11 ·
2. Not get hit by shooting, if the character is not the same type shooting is distributed on a basis that you take all the hits, spread them out so that each model in the regular unit is hit once, then the character takes a hit, then you hit the unit again etc. If you have decent protection on your characters, this may not be a big problem.
This only Happens when the unit you are in drops below 5 rank and file models. Likely a regular occurance with trolls, but not with most other choices in our army.

Also, whats this nonsense that if your BSB is in the unit you arn't stupid anymore? Stupid is as stupid does, you never lose it and will always have to test for it. having but a single stupid model in a non-stupid unit, you will still take stupidity tests.

The other thing to remember is that no character is going to match the footprint of a troll, they are on 45mm bases while the only mount options we have are 25x50mm or 50mm. This means he will be sticking out on the one side awkwardly. This isn't a huge deal, but personally i can't stand the idea that i can't move him around in my unit. Manuvering is very important to me.
 
#8 ·
He can be targetered for shooting, eventhough you have to randomize who gets hit from normal shooting.

Daemonic Mount = MC
Palaquin = IN
Jugger = MC

Trolls = MI

Edit:

as you can see, the 3 mount types are diffrent from that of the trolls, which mean your character is a diffrent unit type than the unit you are joining.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I've played the new ogres a few times now, and each time I find two things to be very effective against them. One, a large group of great weapon marauders can stand up to just about anything from an ogre army, and second, shadow magic works wonders against them(enfeebling foe and curse of the leper combo can wipe out a whole unit :) the only thing I would be afraid of is a big unit of ironguts charging me from the front with mournfang from the rear or flank. But I always have something to tie up the mournfang for a turn or two, possibly longer.
 
#15 ·
I think that this is specifically not the case because of the existence of the Noblar Lookout. His rules specifically state that he allows a character to make a Look Out Sir if there are Three or more Rank and File models, which is an exception to the BRB's 5 model rule. Because GW would not put a 100% redundant upgrade in a brand new book, I can only assume that the BRB states 5 models.
 
#18 ·
But they are not Monstrous Infantry to begin with.

But yeah, maybe it is only intended for counting Ranks.. it just feels like it would be more consistent if it was used for 'Look out Sir!' as well, but maybe there is not a case for it.
 
#16 ·
The comment about the BSB was taken out of the way I intended it, since the BSB is joining the unit of trolls you will be using his leadership 8 to test for stupidty yes? and its rerollable so you may never go stupid but to say that would be silly, so you reduce your chance of going stupid by alot.
 
#17 ·
The maw is deadly against large marauder hordes. Their init isnn't low, but it's still low enough to suffer horribly, as even if they pass they still take s3 hits. I don't see leadbelchers as a threat. THey have poor BS and not great strength guns, and have rarely done more than 5 casualties in a game.
 
#19 ·
Just remember... we have Ironguts too...
 
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