The Virtues of Vespid

[Vodimier]

but according to the forums, every unit that isn't in a suit or carrying a laser pointer is useless =(. you can't make an army with no troop choices

[oceanwolf]

Unfortunately that is where the Tau are at this point. We won't be seeing much variation in the way they are played in a competitive environment until we get a codex update. For the greater good?

[psichotykwyrm]

Wow. You're a pompous prick. Get off you're high horse champ.

Should I feel special because threadomancy was perpetrated just to call me names?

And why hasn't a mod closed this yet? They're really dragging their feet lately.

[shas_on_u]

You lot in the tau forum really get yourselves heated up over the slightest things don't you?
In about 6 posts I don't think there is a forum rule you haven't broken. (Maybe copyright infringement is about it?)

Calm down please. Since this has come up again we should probably discuss it.

Pros of vespids:
... ... ... ... gimme a minute i'm trying to think of something they add to tau we don't already have ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... I5?
Thats pretty much it, and they are actually worse in combat than battle suits so I5 is pretty wasted there.

Cons of vespid:

Fragile, don't kill vehicles, don't do anything we haven't already got, over-costed... you get the idea.

The math-hammer on point efficiency V marines:

Vespids: 1.333 V marines, that is actually pretty damn good. Means that over the coarse of a game the vespids will probably kill 1.3 marines for every vespid you take. I would show you the mathammer but it's a very complex calculator I took about 6 months to make that factors the % chance of cover, speed, armour, transport capability etc...

Marines: 1.333 V vespids. Well who on earth would have expected that??? factoring cover and speed bolter-armed marines are just as good at killing vespids as vespids are marines. Intersting... So here we establish that if you fire first and weaken the enemy and then charge him with your vespids they are actually a pretty solid choice to take! So yes vespids make their points back with appropriate use of cover. Not bad, so why do we not take them? Because of this:

Foot slogging Fire Warriors: 0.8875 V marines, so just under their point cost assuming that 75% of the time they fire at maximum range and 25% of the time at rapid-fire range.

Mech Marines: 0.8225 V foot-slogging fire-warriors, so marines are worse at killing fire-warriors than fire-warriors are at killing marines assuming 75/25 rapid-fire/max range as they're mechanised.

So what this shows you is that basic foot-slogging fire warriors, a unit commonly regarded as bad, are better than vespids in terms of killing marines v taking damage back.

Then of course 2 units you should all have guessed are the final nail in vespids coffin:

Mech-fire warriors: 0.854pt efficiency V marines, marines have less than 0.3pt efficiency back due to the transport.
Fire knives: 1.073 efficiency V marines, marines have a 0.694 efficiency back at them, this doesnt even factor in JSJ.

So why take vespids when foot fire warriors, mechanised fire warriors and fire knives are better in EVERY WAY. So you should probably only take them if you are running 6 mounted fire warrior squads and as many battlesuits as possible. And then you should buy pathfinders instead anyway. Now can a mod close this necro-post please?

[Rabbit]

General Vexille, welcome to Librarim Online. Feel free to contact either myself or another mod if you have any questions. In the mean time, I'm including a link for our rules below.

Rules of Librarium Online

You'll notice that posting in threads older than a few months is actually against forum rules (see "Reviving topics, a.k.a. Necromancy").

More importantly, you've violated the rules for how we treat each other on LO. Please see the topic heading "No Flaming or Trolling." We DON'T tolerate verbal attacks on other members.

And why hasn't a mod closed this yet? They're really dragging their feet lately.

Mods don't go around reading every thread. We also rely on our members, who should report their issues. In this case, the thread was reported two hours ago. That's really not a bad reaction time. After all, we aren't 911.

In addition, it's a weekend, whereas our boards are most active during the week. This goes for mods as well, so there are fewer of us logging on and doing our daily chores. Now, if you'll excuse me, I just got up, and I haven't even had a cup of coffee yet.

You lot in the tau forum really get yourselves heated up over the slightest things don't you?

Our Tau community has the talent of figuring out how to turn a feather into a timebomb. Macgyver would be jealous.

At this point, it seems the momentum of the thread might be coming back to life. However, in abiding by the rules, we should really start a new topic if fresh conversation is to ensue. Given that, I'm putting this thread back in the ground to rest.

*thread closed*