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Experienced Necron KILLERS. Key word, KILLERS.

15K views 188 replies 27 participants last post by  shas_on_u 
#1 ·
Who's ever fought Necrons and won, please tell me what you did because I want whatever you're smoking, and lots of it! PLEASE SHARE YOUR TACTICS HERE!
 
#2 ·
I would suggest playing them. Nothing gives you a better insight of the strengths and weaknesses of an army better then playing them several games. Also, reading their codex so you know what units do what and what special abilities their wargear gives helps.
 
#4 ·
AP1, 2, and 3. do whatever it takes to deny them an armor save and make them take as many saves as possible. you have to prioritise really well, its all about focused fire. submunition railhead, massed fire warrior blast, and crisis suit plasma is important. also try kroot. in combat necrons pretty much fold like paper, so get a big unit in combat and have fun, especially those hounds (results may vary). thats all there is to it.
 
#5 ·
Ion Cannons. Good fun, long range, force WBB rolls because they deny armour saves. A couple of those guys would help. 2 Broadsides to deal with the almost inevitable Monolith. Lots of plasma, not perhaps so much of the Fusion Blasters because of the problem of range. Even with JSJ you're going to get caught with rapid fire from the Warriors' gauss flayers. MPs are better; even though they don't ignore the armour save, they wound more easily, particularly against those Destroyers and Immortals. They also match the Gauss Cannon's range too.

E.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Start by building a good Tau list. Like the one suggested in this topic ... which is almost identical to the kind of build I suggest in my tactica.

There's a reason those army lists are so similar. That essential build is the only competitive all-comers build available to Tau. So if you want a strongly competitive army, that's what you need to use.

This is very important because that build gives you a lot of AP 3+ weaponry. Forcing 'crons to rely on their WBB rolls only is key to killing them off. If you aren't using low-AP weaponry -- 'cause you've loaded up on flamers, burst cannons, and pulse rifles instead -- then you're not going to be killing 'crons reliably enough or quickly enough.

Secondly, use that army list build correctly. My tactica will help you out there.

Thirdly, with Necrons the most important thing is to kill entire units. You must keep shooting at a unit with everything until every last model is dead. Kill every model and they won't be allowed WBB rolls. (Res Orb notwithstanding, of course.)

Fourthly, prioritize your targets correctly.

1. Destroyer Lord
2. Destroyers
3. Res Orb Lord (and whatever unit he's in)
4. Immortals
5. Warriors

Do you see the Monolith on that list? No? Then don't shoot at it. EVER. I don't care if you have 6 railguns, don't shoot at the monolith. Railguns will Instant Death every Necron model ... and that means NO WBB! Put the fear of Phase Out in the 'crons good, and put that fear in them early. The only way to do that is to kill 'crons off ASAP. If you're killing 'crons quickly, the 'cron general will be forced to TP 'crons through the 'lith portal for extra WBB chances ... which means its main guns can't shoot at you. Which leads me to...

Fifthly, no matter what the game mission is, go for phase out. Make no efforts to obtain objectives. Don't worry about KPs. Kill 'cron models and nothing but 'cron models and phase them out. This is really not that hard to accomplish. Especially if the 'cron player was foolish enough to include any monoliths. Every 'lith taken is a unit of Necrons that can't be put ont the table, making the Phase Out target that much easier to reach. You should thank every Necron player who takes even a single Monolith. They are doing you a big favor.
 
#9 ·
Do you see the Monolith on that list? No? Then don't shoot at it. EVER. I don't care if you have 6 railguns, don't shoot at the monolith. Railguns will Instant Death every Necron model ... and that means NO WBB! Put the fear of Phase Out in the 'crons good, and put that fear in them early. The only way to do that is to kill 'crons off ASAP. If you're killing 'crons quickly, the 'cron general will be forced to TP 'crons through the 'lith portal for extra WBB chances ... which means its main guns can't shoot at you. Which leads me to...

Number6 is usually spot on with his tactics, but if youve got 6 railguns in a list that monolith will not last past the first turn..

Now knowing tacticly when to shoot is important, if you have str 8 stuff, no absolutly, don't bother to shoot at it. But if theres good odds to take it out, do it, as itll cause all kinds of problems with WBB,tank shock, contesting objectives. ect..
 
#7 ·
AP1, 2, and 3. do whatever it takes to deny them an armor save and make them take as many saves as possible. you have to prioritise really well, its all about focused fire. submunition railhead, massed fire warrior blast, and crisis suit plasma is important. also try kroot. in combat necrons pretty much fold like paper, so get a big unit in combat and have fun, especially those hounds (results may vary). thats all there is to it.
 
#8 ·
also make sure the are playing WWB right. the number of times I've argued with our necron player that not being able to take his WWB roll is the same as failing his WBB role is unreal.

don't let them leave models lying around on their side turn after turn if they can't take a WBB roll because the rules say they are only removed when they fail the roll.
 
#15 · (Edited)
"Ignore everything, Go for phase-out" is a viable tactic if you can smack the warriors with powerfists/power weapons and then sweep whole units off the board thus denying WBB. If you can't do that, then you'd better do the math first before committing to that tactic... Why?

Let me explain this in MEQ terms: A necron warrior whose unit is within the range of orb has, for all intents and purposes, same or better survivability than a Terminator. Yes. WBB of 4+ and armor save of 3+ is same as you'd have armor save of 2+ and WBB of 4+ beats invusave of 5+. Add to that the fact that monolith can allow the necrons to reroll failed WBBs and you can see the problem... An average 1500 pointer Monolith list has lord, 20-30 warriors and 8-10 destroyers. Thats 30 to 40 necron models of which you must kill 75% in order to force a phase-out.

If you really can kill 5 to 6 Terminators each and every turn, then you can force a phase-out on or before turn 5. If you can't and you go for phase-out you are basically gambling against the odds. You might get the phase-out if necron players rolls bad and you roll good, but it is pure luck with odds not on your side.
 
#17 ·
If you really can kill 5 to 6 Terminators each and every turn, then you can force a phase-out on or before turn 5.
Ummm ... how is not super easy for any decent Tau list? If you can't wipe out a terminator squad in a single turn's worth of shooting -- and I have to do this regularly 'cause I face lots of Marine opponent who love them TH/SS termies -- then you're playing too weak of an army list ... and that's the problem. Not WBB or the Monolith.

Sorry, Monoliths are just not scary. If you're destroying Necron models, the monolith will not be shooting at you! It can't! Because the 'cron player will be forced to TP 'crons through the portal for WBB rerolls. So where's the threat? Answer: it doesn't exist. The 'lith costs more than land raider yet is incapable of saving that many points worth of Necrons over the course of the game.

Ignore it! It's an anchor on the Necron army!
 
#19 ·
haddatt said:
Sure thing junior mint.
:rotfl:

Worth the price of admission right there.

At this point, all I can do is disagree, I guess. Necrons are the single weakest codex in existence right now. All the locals who own Necrons have been forced to pick up a secondary army in order to enjoy 40K again because they haven't beaten anybody with them almost since the release of 5th edition. The new rules did them no favors whatsoever.

Still broken out from time to time ... and we all have a good laugh as a result.
 
#23 ·
:rotfl:

At this point, all I can do is disagree, I guess. Necrons are the single weakest codex in existence right now. All the locals who own Necrons have been forced to pick up a secondary army in order to enjoy 40K again because they haven't beaten anybody with them almost since the release of 5th edition. The new rules did them no favors whatsoever.
Secondary army? Im on my 5th!!! {Nothing to do with my me still winning with necrons, but more to do with my ADHD} :giggle:
 
#20 ·
I do not disagree. They are in desperate need of a new codex, but summarily dismissing the Monolith, well I think your all out tactic of kill until phase out is an over simplification. Sure when you get it done it works, but there are times when you kinda need to put that big thing down.
 
#21 ·
Well ... I've never had to shoot at the Monolith! (And no Monolith has ever fired upon me.) :rotfl:
 
#22 ·
Sorry guys but the whole "ignore the monoliths, go for phase out" is terrible advice. Any competent player will simply not let you phase him out. As a Necron player who uses two monoliths and the deceiver I will say that it's not that hard to prevent phase out. You just need to have a strong knowledge of how to use blocking, bubblewrap and reserves.

If anyone has Vassal and wants a game I'd be glad to show you how hard it is to phase out a Necron player who knows what he's doing. I'll be taking my Necrons to two GTs this summer and making battle reports as well. There is also several Necron tactics articles on my blog and I'm working on an all-encompassing Necron tactica as well.

So as I said, if you want to beat a good Necron player you need to ignore phase out and go for the objectives. Going for phase out is exactly what a Necron player wants you to do.
 
#24 ·
I need somebody to explain to me what is threatening about the Monolith. If it's the 'lith shooting -- which indeed would be dangerous to our crisis suits -- all you have to do to stop it shooting is kill Necron models. If you kill Necron models quickly and efficiently, the 'cron player will be forced to TP 'crons for WBB rolls and give up his shooting.

Otherwise, the thing is slow. No reason you can't run away from it all day long. You're Tau.

If it deep strikes, you have at least one turn of shooting at Necrons. Keep that up. When it arrives, it can't shoot and otherwise just shoves some of your models around. And then you continue shooting Necrons, and the 'lith will not be shooting because it'll be teleporting 'crons again....

What am I missing here? How can you not be phasing 'crons out each and every game you play against them? I mean, I rack up plenty of losses, but in my entire 40K history with all of GKs, Tau, and now Tyranids, I have lost a grand total of one game against Necrons, and that was my first 5e game: GKs v Necrons. A battle of the two worst 40K armies. :rotfl:
 
#25 ·
Necron Warriors are tougher than you give them credit for. They should always be in cover, spread out the full 2", or out of LOS if possible. The Tau army doesn't have enough firepower to kill enough 'Crons to phase them out. Remember, you will be taking losses as well. Especially from the Monoliths if you're not shooting at them. If you're only shooting at the Necrons, the Deceiver will ruin your day. The ability to make you take morale checks is very strong against Tau and since he can jump over all models you can't tarpit him with kroot. Also if you charge him to tie him up then he can just leave combat.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I can't speak to the C'Tan. Nobody's ever brought them in any actual game I've played. If I played 'crons, I wouldn't field them, either. Too many points not invested in avoiding Phase Out. (That's exactly what every 'cron player has told me, anyway, and I agree with that analysis.)

But 'cron shooting is pathetic outside of destroyers. There's a reason I listed them tops on the priority list. ;) Destroy them, and the Necrons are absolutely and totally boned in my experience. Every other weapon they have is 24" max (Immortals) or rapid fire ... on infantry. So we can simply play keep away for an entire game. If Necrons are cowering where they can't be seen, OK then, avoid them. They're clearly not contributing to the Necron victory. Shoot at other targets, then. (Even the Monolith, if that's all that's being offered.)

But to win games, Necrons will not be hiding from you. They can't afford to. They have to take objectives or at least attempt to kill you.

Again, we're Tau. Slow 'n pokey 'crons simply cannot hide from us. Not with True Line of Sight they can't. Necrons are expensive, and like any "elite" army of expensive models, torrent of fire is all you need to kill them off. WBB is just a different kind of FNP in this analysis, and you don't hear people complaining about how broken or tough Chaos is when people field 4x or 5x Death Guard or 4x or 5x Plaguebearers.

I don't even hear people complaining that much about BA, where you can get an entire army of FNP ... and BA are significantly deadlier than 'crons in every phase of the game. They're faster, they're shootier, and they're assaultier.

Necrons simply don't equate to a quality army. It is easily defeatable.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Replace the Deceiver with a couple of Res Orb Lords and a few more Warriors to make up the difference and you've got approximately the same list I've regularly seen and that gets phased out easy by just about everybody.

Now I will admit that the Deceiver poses a specific problem for Tau, and actually makes your army more challenging ... at least in the first couple of turns. If we can keep our suits on the table, then I predict phase out by no later than turn 5. The lack of even a single Res Orb is crippling.

Stopping the Deceiver from tearing through your entire army in combat is little different than stopping Mephiston from tearing through your entire army, and we can do that if required. So it really does come down to how well our suits can resist the Deceiver's powers. If they do it, we're fine. If they don't, I actually agree the game is going to be very tightly contested.
 
#33 ·
I'm with 6 here, there is a reason Necrons don't feature on the podiums of tourney's. Top players know how to beat them.

No offence M.O.M but that list is an easy beat at 2K. If you hide the warriors and other "Necron" models then I will shoot at the lith and deciever and destroy them. If you send a necron army peicemeal it will get chopped. If you send the entire army the "necron" models get chopped down and you get phased out.

I have been playing since 1993 and I have never lost to necrons and I play against the some of the top players in my little corner of Oz. There are some good builds for necrons that can be competitive in a "comped" environment, but the above is not it.
 
#34 ·
No offence M.O.M but that list is an easy beat at 2K.
First off, no offence taken. Being offended on the interwebz is one of the most pointless things I can imagine doing.

Now I think we are having a bit of a misunderstanding here. I agree that Necrons are not a good army, and I agree that they desperately need a new codex. However, my point is that they are not easy to phase out (provided the player is good), and that going for phase out is a bad decision. As a Necron player I have noticed that the majority of my tournament wins are from people who went into the game greedy and/or complacent, going for phase out and the full 20 battle points. I have also observed that the majority of my losses have been from people who knew that the best course of action was to play the game normally, ignore the phase out rule, and beat me by playing and winning the mission. Sorry but if you are beating people via phase out then they are not playing their army very well.

As you said,
Top players know how to beat them.
 
#35 ·
Oh my goodness, DO NOT get me started with their C'Tan. The Nightbringer... The worst thing that could ever happen to any Tau player. STR10, INV 4+, too many attacks, too far range with its disgusting strength hit. Chew ANY of our squads in CC like no other. How would YOU take it out though?

I'm thinking Railguns light it up EVERY chance they get! Hmmmm?
 
#38 ·
I play crons and as my record suggests I'm damn good at it, but luckily for you I've also played tauup to about 1.5k. So from experience here is how you beat them in general and then how tau beats them:

1. Power weapons (yeah, farsight would be useful but you generally lack here)
2. Combat + sweeping advances (every cron players worse nightmare, kroot are your best friends. If they get sweeped there gone, full stop)
3. S8 AP3 or better TEMPLATES (necrons have large numbers of tough infantry which means normal lascannon/missile equivilents just don't have enough shots. Large blasts are what you need so as a tau player stay AWAY from seeker missiles, just not enough shots)

Now what you should do:

Take 3 broadsides and go monolith hunting. People will tell you that you should go after the warriors for phase out but honestly their monolith/s are the focal point of their army. It needs to go. Period.

Avoid the temptation of lots a little guns. They just don't work. You need 18 pulse rifle shots to kill a single warrior on average (9 hits, 6 wounds, 2 down, 1 gets up) or 13.5 with a markerlight. It's just not point efficient.

Take massive numbers of kroot and sweep squads.

Destroyers + Wraiths are the most deadly thing you will be facing. Concentrate fire on them and then use JSJ to stay out of warrior rapid-fire range and kill them that way.

And finally 12" range is a fight you are NOT going to win. If large numbers of warriors get close you die. Plane and simple. To stop this you kill their mobility (monoliths) use yours (transports and JSJ). If he takes a c'tan just remember its 300+ pts not spent on necrons. Do not freak out. Do not shoot everything you've got at it just stay out of it's way and phase him out. On the bright side if its there that means there probably won't be any liths and if there are hes gonna have a very low phase out point.
 
#41 ·
If Kroot had a little bit higher WS to defend and attack with. My friend ALWAYS runs Lord Destroyer with 3 Wraiths. It's disgusting. I have never even come close to sweeping THAT squad and all he does with that squad is CC because it rapes everything and its mom! I throw 13 Kroot with a Shaper and Rider and I have only ever taken down 1 Wraith and wounded his Lord once. That is the best I've done with my Kroot on that squad! If Kroot had better WS or power weapons... omg...
 
#45 ·
@MOM: No, I don't run VASSAL. One of the big reasons I play 40K and not video games (seriously, I haven't played any video games since Halo 2 came out) is because I crave the social atmosphere that comes along with playing right along with somebody across the table from you. (OK, I do also play Rock Band ... but that's a social game, too! ;) )

So in short, VASSAL bores me. Also, it only ever worked when the terrain rules were abstract. Terrain is "real" now, as represented by True Line of Sight. VASSAL simply can't do that. A lot of what makes 5e 40K interesting on the tactical level is the terrain on your table. VASSAL can't come close to representing that ... so even if I was intrigued, I don't honestly think VASSAL is a legitimate substitute for the actual tabletop game.

@killjaq: Calm down, dude. :rotfl: Like others said on the previous page, don't be so scared of the C'Tan. Especially the Nightbringer. Yes, he kicks major ass in close combat. Why are you letting anything other than Kroot and piranhas interact with that guy? He's slow as molassses. I can understand the difficulty of learning how to avoid something like a Mephiston, but the Nightbringer?

Ignore him, or feed him Kroot, or block him with piranhas. Job's a good 'un. There is simply no reason you should ever ever have to fear the Nightbringer. As I noted earlier, there might me legitimate reason to fear the Deceiver, but definitely not the Nightbringer.

Also, you should read the Necron codex for yourself. You can take 2 Lords if you want.

Also, you should stop using Army Builder. It's wrong. It's always been wrong. It'll never be right. Those basic arithmetic skills you learned in grade school should come in handy for you about now. ;)
 
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