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What's better reason than a tourney to start(in my case : finish, paint and play test) a new army ?
I had a friend of mine drop over 300$ of TK at my place, because he owed me 30$... so euh, I got that nice friendly tourney coming soon, and as I can't get my head straight about my HE army, I decided I'd go TK !
I know TK aren't in the top five best armies to bring in a tourney, but I'm ready for a good challenge.
I do not have much experience in fantasy playing, but I do in 40k, and for such a reason, I tried to adapt 40k play style to fantasy... probably a wrong idea, but I'll at least give it a try.
So, with all this in mind, I went Undead Contruct style. Yeah.
Here's the list :
Tomb King with Flail of Skulls, Armour of Ages, Cloak of Dunes. 270
I went with the flying King because 1. He's damn cool 2. He's damn Fast 3. I prefer Skulls of Eternities because overall its a better weapon against high T multi-wounds models like Dragons or Steg. My plan is to use his mobility early in the game to try to place key units where I want them, and make best use of 2x shooting phase (even if my shooting ain't that big)
Tomb Prince on Chariot with Flail, Icon and Fire. 193
He joins the Banner chariot unit, simply because he's that good. lol. I could have taken another Priest instead, but I like the CC punch a bit more
Hierophant Priest with Jar, Scroll, mount. 173
Priest with 2x Scrolls, mount. 173
11 Skeleton Horsemen, Banner. 168
11 Skeleton Horsemen, Banner. 168
Ok, I went Horsemen over Warriors because 1. They are twice as fast 2. They get a free reform 3. Points for points, you get outnumber for cheaper 4. Enemy can hardly deploy out of range. I know that I do have a lower body count for the same survivability, but have a second look at my list, who's gonna loose time to hit them ?
3 Chariots, Banner, Mus, Mirage Banner. 210
3 Chariots. XXX
Double means each flank get's them
I hesitated quite a lot about having a second Ushabti unit, but points does not allow, and 2 Scorpies didn't felt good in my head. They must, and will be used in combined charges
4 Ushabti. XXX
Can take damage, and still do some. The slowest unit of my army, and I expect it to draw a lot of attention.
Total : 1990 pts.
3 Scrolls, 4 DD, no Bounds.
My plan is to divide my army in 2 flanks, equal in strength, or adapted to my opponent deployment. The idea behind the army was to have too many hard hitting units in it to let my opponent properly focus on them. It's a Nidzilla approach, and I do know that CC and movement isn't the same in both games, but with undead being immune to psychology, it makes things a bit easier. I have enough shooting to neutralize some fast cav. or warmachine's crew, and combined with regen OR movement, I expect my units to reach my enemy lines how and when I want to. I know my magic phase, but based on my expectations, if I play turn 1 aggressively, I should be able to get 2-3 spells a turn from turn 2.
So, make me cry now.
That's actually quite a nice list bud. A little quirky in some areas perhaps, but I can certainly see where you want to go with it. Since a lot of the things I would normally suggest (like an SSC etc) don't really apply to a list like this, I'll forego the more obvious stuff.
The only major problem you will encounter in following such a strategy with this list is the light horse. They are absoloutely not cut out for any kind of offensive hammer action and they will be a huge dissappointment if you try and use them as such (the banners are also a big no-no for the same reason). This will leave you packing a lot less punch unless you swap some of these for more (on theme) chariots, but you should still have more than enough for most cases as it is TBH.
If you decide to keep all those light horse then I would use them -more or less- just as mobile archers etc. I'm not sure if this was always your intention or not but the inclusion of the banners kinda threw me a bit to be honest. If you split these up into smaller groups of 5 of so then they will be a lot more flexible in terms of redirection units etc, but bear in mind this will make your smiting less efficient. This is probably not a big deal though since you'll want to devote most of your magic to getting off charges with the Ushabti and chariots anyway.
As you know, you might be up against it in the magic phase(s) -particularly in the early turns, but the scrolls should help you keep things together until you can even the odds in that regard.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...
I wasn't too sure about my horses squad size neither. Large squads + reform is cool, but not as versatile as smaller squads. I took big squads because of the following advantages : 1. Incantation of striking is more influent on larger squads 2. I want them to outnumber my ennemies IF they ever charge something in a supporting action. But now that I think of it, I'd be better with one large squad and 2-3 smaller ones, because 3 horses are enough to negate ranks bonus, and even if outnumber + fear is great, a combined charge with chariots should be enough to break my annemy, or 2 Scorpies + horses on the flank.
I miscalculated my big chariot unit, included Champ points in the cost. With that 20+10 pts, I have enough points to make a huge 12 horses squad + 2x 6 horses. I don't know about the banner, maybe change it for a mus ? Horses with banner on the flank + Scorpies would be great I think.
As for horses VS chariot, I have no more chariot models, and don't have the money for more. What I have left is : Ushabtis (conversions, of course), Scorpies (conversion, again), 2x Bone Giants and skellies on demand (up to 40). I could remove a scorpy and a 12 Horses for another 4 Ushabti, but then my list doesn't look as fast and as fun. Bone Giants are a waste (really, why do I even own the model ?). Maybe I could try to scratch build 2x Stone Throwers ? Would 2x Stone Throwers be better than 12 horses in my list ?
I know screaming skull catapult are great, and a real deal for their cost, but being my only units that wouldn't move, I think they'd be easy prey for my opponent as I have nothing to back em up. (180/220 pts for 4-6 stone shots ?, I'd be better with the casket...)
Now that I think of it, a static casket would be kinda weird, but great strategically. If I put my Casket in the middle of the view of my opponent army and split the rest of my army into 2 Flanks, his fast elements aka warmahine hunters will have to cross the path of my flanks... (with Scorpies on both flanks, I have a 28'' hole in witch my Casket can be visible while getting 360 protection) humm humm I have to test it ! I don't expect it to do anything more than to absorb ennemy scrolls, which is already great !
Last edited by Bladesuit; October 30th, 2009 at 15:20.
I just had a talk with the tournament organizer, and I asked him about DOGS, and his answer was positive, as long as my codex as the entry for it. Wow, first time an old codex comes in handy... so, I have a few Ogres models at home, but I don't know if they are really worth the changes I had in mind.
Here's the new list :
Tomb King with Flail of skulls, Armour of ages, dune. 270
I'm not decided yet between this set up or Antarhak, Scorpion and dune, or GW, Shield, Ages, Dune and Ankhra
Tomb Prince on Chariot with Chariot of fire, Icon of Rulership, flail. 192
Leech Priest, scroll, Jar. 165
Leech Priest, 2x scroll. 165
6 Horsemen. 84
5 Horsemen. 70
5 Horsemen. 70
3 Chariots. 120
3 Chariots. 120
3x Leadbelchers. 165
4x iron Guts, Banner, Warbanner. 237
The way I see it, Iron guts are comparable to Ushabti, yet, not the same at all. Being constructs, Ushabti are CC monsters simply because they will stay in there until death. But they are slower (no march and -1 move), and get no banner (static +2) or Bullcharge.
I know they can move faster through Urgency, but I wonder how often I would have cast it on my Ushabti unit, really. They are too slow to keep with the rest of my army, while Ogres are just fine. I can't regain wounds on my Ogres though, but they are slightly cheaper to make for it...
I also squeezed a Leadbelchers unit in there. These are simply too much fun to pass. I really do like them, and I believe that they offer me some nice shooting versatility. With 18'' of range, str4 armour piercing RANDOM amount of shots, they are of great psychological effect (plus they are still ogres, with bull and all).
And one last thing, I get a 4th Scorpie !
(I thought about getting some birds, but are they really worth in in my kind of list ? I could get 3 for a scorpie, or 6 for a scorpie and an Horsemen unit)
What do you think about this ?
While it's true that the SSCs will be your only static element your list is basically a variation on a super agressive (almost settra-esque) kinda army. If you can maintain the initiative then your opponent should have his hands full dealing with all your hammers anyway, so by the time the SSCs are in jeapordy their effectiveness is greatly diminished in any case. I would definately encourage you to use at least one SSC in almost any list because there are some things that you will really struggle against without at least one.
In many peoples opinions the casket is also a 'must have' in a 'standard' list. Although this list is anything but standard, I would still like to see a casket in there if poss because its value in the magic phases is hard to overstate and it would really help you get all those super important charges off. Having said all that, it is not an expendable unit under any circumstances and it will require a certain amout of baby sitting, so on balance I might stick with the twin SSCs in this list after all. In the end I guess it will just come down to your own personal preference.
Carrion are top notch. If you can squeeze them in then 3 will be more than enough for this kind of list.
If you want to be effective then I wouldn't use the Ogres. OK are generally considered one of the weakes armies around because they simply cannot cope with CR despite their other advantages. They are on theme and good fun, but not terribly effective IMHO.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...