What do you think about my 2000 point army list?

[tombkingmarkj]

I've updated by 2000 point army list. I have been finding, in recent games, that I have too many points spent on priests, which has been leaving me too thin on the ground for models. Eventually my tomb guard crack and the enemy inflicts serious damge in the 5th or 6th turn. So, I've dropped a priest with magic items and my High Priest's Golden Ankrha and replaced it with 5 tomb swarms. The theory is that 5 bases will tie some really difficult units (such as big knight units, beastly characters etc) down for the whole game: allowing the tomb guard a little less pressure and hopefully holding the line until the end of the game.

Anyway, here it is. I've included particular comments by certain units as an indicator of how I'd use them/why they are there.

Core
30 Skeleton Warriors W/Bows
*They form a solid line of sinew through which to break before reaching my screaming skulls. 30 Skeletons is particularly hard to wear down: the weight in numbers, plus possible reinforcements from priests keeps them fighting for a long time, ensuring that enemy units don't reach the catapults.

5 Tomb Swarm bases
*To tie up trickier units that would otherwise make an impact on the centre of my battle line. Start inside my deployment zone.

2 Tomb Swarm bases
*Underground, to take out war machines.

Special

4 chariots
Full command
Icon of the Sacred Eye
*Joined by Tomb Prince, for mincing lesser armour save units, or tackling 'medium' threats after softening up from screaming skulls.

3 chariots
Standard

3 Carrion
*For slowing down marchers, allowing pro-longed pelting of weaker units by my skeletons and more screaming skull action against units of knights etc.

21 Tomb Guard
Full Command
*The centre of the battle line.

Rare

2 Screaming Skull catapults
Skulls of the Foe

*With LHP near by, for maximised stone thrower effectiveness. Target heavy cavalry, and serious threats.

Characters

Prince
Chariot
Collar of Shapesh
Chariot of Fire
Great Weapon
Light armour
*Joins bigger chariot unit and benefits from sacred eye.

LHP
Hieratic Jar
Cloak of Dunes
Brooch of the Great desert.
*Couples with Screaming skulls, safety in mobility and effective positioning.

LP
Dispell Scroll
*Gets carrion forward and being a pain in the first turn then supports other units.




I think my most significant problem is a lack of hard hitting troops after the screaming skulls. But the only real option is Ushabti and at 65 points for T4 W3, its just too easy to loose 195 points.

[Luyp]

well i see a big problem right away, you have 2 units of tomb swarms and your only allowed 1. i would drop the unit of 5 and keep the unit of 2. also you may find that 30 skeletons is a bit much drop them down to 20-25 blocks and have 2 of them, i find they are way more effective that way other than that looks not bad. just watch your LOS and you should be fine!

[tombkingmarkj]

You're right of course. How silly of me to put in two tomb swarms. I think though, that I'd be inclined to keep the 5 and drop the 2. I need the 5 to tie up difficult units. 25 wounds is going to take a lot of combat resolutions, especially when supported by a nearby priest.

The carrion are capable of doing the job of the smaller tomb swarm, before moving around to march block.

By loosing the two tomb swarm bases, the chariot standard + sacrificing 3 skeletons, I spare myself the points to buy a priest, which on reflection is needed for the attrition involved in the magic phase.

So, it seems then, that by dropping the golden ankhra, the plaques of might incantations, and a few skeletons I've made space from 3 more tomb swarms (totalling 5 bases) who can hold up the nasties for an entire game. I think that's a nice refinement.

The only question I'm left with is whether its worth dropping a few more skeletons to allow the smaller chariot unit to keep their standard. They die quite often so I might be giving 100 pts away, but then it could be the difference maker in a combat.

[tombkingmarkj]

OK. A refined version

Core

20 Skeletons W/Bows
*Provide a layer of sinew infront of the screaming skulls. Usually a hill present, so form in two ranks and reform when confronting an enemy charge.


5 Tomb Swarm Bases
*Tie up key enemy units for the game. Supported (if necessary) by LP.

Special

4 Chariots
Full Command
Icon of Sacred Eye
*Joined by TP, for tackling mediumish units and supporting Tomb Guard against tougher enemies.

3 Chariots
*Dealing with chaos hounds, wolf riders, small units of elves and the like.

3 Carrion
*Prevent marches, harrass war machines. Dropped behind enemy lines in first turn due to priests urgency incantation.

20 Tomb Guard
*Centre of the battle line.

Rare
2 Screaming Skulls
Skulls of the Foe
*To tackle the nasty stuff - big units of heavy cavalry, slanns, lords on dragons etc.

Characters

LHP
Hieratic Jar
Cloak of Dunes
Brooch of the Great Desert
*Partners screaming skulls, allowing 4 shots per turn.

LP
*Gets carrion forward before supporting other units.

LP
Dispell Scroll
*As above

TP
Chariot
Chariot of Fire
Great Weapon
Collar of Shapesh
*Joins larger chariot unit and benefits from sacred eye.

[Luyp]

skeletons are much better at tying up big units than tomb swarms anny day of the week IMO
1. 25 skeletons cost less than 5 swarms
2. swarms regen D3 wounds, skeletons D6
3. skeletons get rank bounus
4. skeletons will take CR better than swarms
5. skeletons are a multi purpose unit


swarms are good, just not so big of a unit, also you now only have 2 core units

and about the chariots, id say don't bother with the banner, or any other upgrade, 3 without a character dont ever last long but they do there job well and once done can continue to mess stuff up for your opponent.

and it is totally personal choice but you may want to rethink your prince setup, if chariots dont win combat on the turn they charge, its sad but way to offten it means they are doommed!

[Orthanus]

Originally Posted by tombkingmarkj

Core

20 Skeletons W/Bows
*Provide a layer of sinew infront of the screaming skulls. Usually a hill present, so form in two ranks and reform when confronting an enemy charge.
A good unit, I take this unit though normally take a small 10 or so man unit to put infront of it to take the charge for it so that it gets perhaps an extra turn of shooting.

5 Tomb Swarm Bases
*Tie up key enemy units for the game. Supported (if necessary) by LP.
Honestly mate this unit is gunna just be a points sink. Tomb Swarms are good for taking out high-toughness, low-armour save targets such as giants and or low toughness low save targets such as enemy ranged troops. If you want attrition models go with sword troops with their low cost and 9pts cost thats 5 per swarm. Alternatively you could go with bow troops for less attrition but perhaps more damage as with nearly 6 per swarm you could do some ranged damage.

Also on a practical note. 40x40 base, you charge this into elite troops, say greatswords, you only going to get 4 in at most, so you got a 5th base doing jack-all.

Special

4 Chariots
Full Command
Icon of Sacred Eye
*Joined by TP, for tackling mediumish units and supporting Tomb Guard against tougher enemies.
Ok. If you have a character joining you really only want 3 in the squad do you have 4 over all for the same reason as with the tomb swarm. Also, drop the champion. +1 attack for the cost of half a chariot = D1.5 impact hits, and 2 attacks. That said Sacred Eye is THE best chariot banner because there are so many attacks that get +1.

3 Chariots
*Dealing with chaos hounds, wolf riders, small units of elves and the like.
give this a standard bearer and cursing word banner because even against cavalry it hits 4 models with no armour save. This way it can certainly decimate small squads and can do damage even to the likes of chaos cavalry.

3 Carrion
*Prevent marches, harrass war machines. Dropped behind enemy lines in first turn due to priests urgency incantation.
I like carrion, 3 will deal with seige weapon crew, but really you need 4 to take out 10 man ranged squads such as empire marksmen or dark elf repeater bolter-ers

20 Tomb Guard
*Centre of the battle line.
No Command? Also this is your only non-cavalry attacking unit. This means you are going to get oumanuvered, flanked then raped.

Rare
2 Screaming Skulls
Skulls of the Foe
*To tackle the nasty stuff - big units of heavy cavalry, slanns, lords on dragons etc.
SSC's with SoF are amazing. Remember that you do have to take out big nasty things like characters on dragons first because NOTHING else can take these out.

Characters

LHP
Hieratic Jar
Cloak of Dunes
Brooch of the Great Desert
*Partners screaming skulls, allowing 4 shots per turn.
Why have you taken the Broach? That is basically a dispell scroll for TK's and TP's? Also, take Neferra's Plaques of Mighty Incantations. At 30pts is probably the best magic item we have. any time you get 10 or less you can use it coz the average roll of 3D6 is 10.5.

LP
*Gets carrion forward before supporting other units.
Plain LP, I like it.

LP
Dispell Scroll
*As above
No SoR? Not a bad addition seeing as you have so much magic, this will make your magic phase truely overpowering

TP
Chariot
Chariot of Fire
Great Weapon
Collar of Shapesh
*Joins larger chariot unit and benefits from sacred eye.
Drop the chariot of fire. It isn't in my opinion worth the 25pts. Also, the Spear of Antarhak will give him strength 5 hits on first round of combat and can 'grow back' his chariot if necessary. At the moment your chariot only has a 5+ save and is hit by 2/3 of all attacks on the TP. Once the chariot is gone, he will be detached from the squad of chariots and vulnerable

I hope this helped, I have some further points:

You need 3 core at 2000pts
I don't see how your list will mesh together, I don't think you have enough basic troops.

[tombkingmarkj]

Ok, in light of what's been said, how about this:

Core

20 Skeletons w/bows + standard * Layer of sinew, protecting SSCs in turns 5+6.
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard * Supporting unit of TG.
Tomb Swarm (2 bases) * Take out war machines

Special
3 Chariots * Support Skeletons/TG as necessary. Targets smaller units.
3 Chariots * Support Skeletons/TG as necessary. Targets smaller units.
4 Carrion * Blocks marches, tackles ranged units.
20 Tomb Guard + Full Command + War Banner *Centre of battle line, joined by Tomb Prince, supported by chariots/Skeletons

Rare
2 Screaming Skulls * Supported by LHP: maximising shooting.

Characters
LHP + Cloak of Dunes + Plaques of Mighty Incanatations + Hieratic Jar *Supports SSCs
LP + Disp Scr * Gets Carrion behind enemy line in first magic phase then supports other units
LP + Disp Scr *Supports other units.
Prince + Vambraces of the Sun + Collar of Shapesh + Great Weapon *Joins TG.


Points to note:

I totally see your point about the tomb swarms. Instead they'll be used to target war machines as previously. 20 Skeles do make a better delay unit. Also, that they have bows will allow more shooting which is a bonus.

Likewise, I see your point about the chariots. I've decided to take away the banner to help make space for some skeltons. I'm gonna leave the banner of the cursing word I think, as I'm inclined to stick with the extra +1 on the static combat res with the tomb guard.

Tomb Guard did come with command, I just forgot to mention it. Generally, I place them in the centre of the battle line and have chariots providing flank support. I see your point about non-cavalry attacking units, but I think this is a weakness of the race, not just my army list. Ushabti are the only possible hard hitting choice here (as cavalry just give the tomb guard's opponents easier targets for combat resolution) but they are 65 points for a T4 W3 model! I'm inclined to support with chariots and possibly ranked units of skeletons. What do you think about this?

Brooch, no particular reason, same as a dispell scroll. Totally agree with you about the plaques, although I'm leaving out the SoR, as its range is only 18" and generally speaking, I keep my priests firmly near the back, meaning this would have limited effects for 45 pts.

Perhaps the most significant change to the army, besides the introduction of a new skelton unit, is the way I've re-worked the Prince. You are quite right about the whole chariot thing, so instead I'm going to use him to further support the middle of the battle line. By giving him the vambraces and collar I'm hoping I'm offering him enough protection, while he will reap the full potential of the great weapon, since he's on foot, and get a bit of 'My Will Be Done' on the TG.