2000 pt army list. What changes, if any, would you make?

[tombkingmarkj]

After hearing comments from other members of this forum, here is my proposed 2k army list. Your comments and thoughts are very welcome.

Thanks

Mark

Core

20 Skeletons w/bows + standard * Layer of sinew, protecting SSCs in turns 5+6.
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard * Supporting unit of TG.
Tomb Swarm (2 bases) * Take out war machines

Special
3 Chariots * Support Skeletons/TG as necessary. Targets smaller units.
3 Chariots * Support Skeletons/TG as necessary. Targets smaller units.
4 Carrion * Blocks marches, tackles ranged units.
20 Tomb Guard + Full Command + War Banner *Centre of battle line, joined by Tomb Prince, supported by chariots/Skeletons

Rare
2 Screaming Skulls * Supported by LHP: maximising shooting.

Characters
LHP + Cloak of Dunes + Plaques of Mighty Incanatations + Hieratic Jar *Supports SSCs
LP + Disp Scr * Gets Carrion behind enemy line in first magic phase then supports other units
LP + Disp Scr *Supports other units.
Prince + Vambraces of the Sun + Collar of Shapesh + Great Weapon *Joins TG.

[Phoenix]

Hmm, it seems the reply rate of my kingdom is slipping, ill have a word with the High Priest, see if he can animate a few guys into action...

Anyway, your list

Your LHP cant have the Jar and the Plaques unfortunately. In general, the recommendation is Plaques for a LHP, to give consistancy. Put the Jar on the highest ranked LP.

Perhaps mount the other Priests. Help their movement out, should make them more useful late game when they need to run from the enemy and help out your guys in combat.

Given the LHP Lord choice, the rest of the army looks nice. Id like to see a Scorp (as always ) but the Carrion are a versatile alternative, and you have Swarms too.

Just a few little niggly things, that will likely be sorted through preference and playtesting. Carrion up to 5 (march blocking/trapping fleeing enemies) or down to 3 (min size). Add music and/or remove standards from skellie warriors. Etc etc, of course its all about fining the necessary points. For now, just play and see where you want to go with the list

[tombkingmarkj]

Hey Phoenix

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've followed most of what you have said, which I think makes my army better:

*LPs on skeletal steed - simple & effective change. Thanks for that.

*Bring in a scorpion - been wanting to do this for a while actually. I decided to drop a chariot unit to achieve it though. Couldn't drop the Tomb Guard as they are the centre of my battle line, couldn't drop the carrion as they are my march blockers, so one chariot unit had to go.

*Upgraded the carrion unit to 5. 4 would march block, but of course 5 slays anything that runs through it.

Didn't follow your advice about the HJ vs Plaques. I wonder if you'll offer your thoughts on this one: I'm hesitant to take the jar from the LHP as I feel that, in giving it to him, I can be sure to be able to cast it at that much needed time. If I give it to a LP, the hierarchy may stop me getting off the needed cast. Plus, with the introduction of the steeds, the scorpion and extra carrion there isn't space for both the jar and the plaques.

Keeping the standards in the skeletons for static res - mine don't tend to be finished off due to priest and flank support (so they give me the static res, but don't throw away 100 vp).

My army list now looks like this:

Core
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
Tomb Swarm (2 bases)

Special
20 Tomb Guard + full command + war banner
3 Chariots
5 Carrion
Tomb Scorpion

Rare
2 SCC + SoF

Characters

Prince + VoS + Collar + GW
LHP + Jar + Cloak
LP + Scroll + Steed
LP + Scroll + Steed

[Orthanus]

Having been out of this forum for aaaages, I am determined to surpass Phoenix in posts and advice, an impossible task but one which I will still pursue.

Hey Phoenix (and me now muahahaha)

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've followed most of what you have said, which I think makes my army better:

*LPs on skeletal steed - simple & effective change. Thanks for that.
Damn Phoenix and his good points. I have to agree here.

*Bring in a scorpion - been wanting to do this for a while actually. I decided to drop a chariot unit to achieve it though. Couldn't drop the Tomb Guard as they are the centre of my battle line, couldn't drop the carrion as they are my march blockers, so one chariot unit had to go.
Scorpions are vital to us tomb kings, though chariots are always a sad thing to lose.

*Upgraded the carrion unit to 5. 4 would march block, but of course 5 slays anything that runs through it.
although 5 means you have a collective front line of 200mm! I personally prefer 4 and advise if you are strapped for points this is one of the first things you change, though as ever it is up to you.

Didn't follow your advice about the HJ vs Plaques. I wonder if you'll offer your thoughts on this one: I'm hesitant to take the jar from the LHP as I feel that, in giving it to him, I can be sure to be able to cast it at that much needed time. If I give it to a LP, the hierarchy may stop me getting off the needed cast. Plus, with the introduction of the steeds, the scorpion and extra carrion there isn't space for both the jar and the plaques.
Ok a couple of things. You cannot take HJ and Plaques together anyway because they are both arcane items, and Plaques is 1000x better on LHP for the following reasons:

1) you have 3 dice per incantation, each with an average roll of 3.5, meaning your average roll is 10.5 . The use of plaques means instead of a 50:50 chance of getting higher than this, you have a 75% chance, meaning your opponant will have to either risk wasting 3 dice by failing to dispel or use 4 dice to ensure a dispel. This means if your opponent is being cautious he will use 2 extra DD per turn, meaning 12 extra dice over the 6 turn game. Allowing for the 25% chance of getting a worse than average roll means 9 extra dice are used. Compare this with the additional 3 dice with the HJ.

2) The HJ works just as well on the LP as your opponant doesn't often expect it thinking that only the LHP is to go, by using it he must choose between dispelling the LHP or HJ spell.

Keeping the standards in the skeletons for static res - mine don't tend to be finished off due to priest and flank support (so they give me the static res, but don't throw away 100 vp).
I am split on this subject. What I would do is take one standard away so that you can sacrifice one unit without worry while the second gets away.

My army list now looks like this:

Core
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
good.

20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
i would drop this banner, perhaps take a mus instead

Tomb Swarm (2 bases)
Yep fine, making up the core

Special
20 Tomb Guard + full command + war banner
Drop warbanner, give them BoUL and make them an anvil unit for the Chariots to smash into. This will mean even enemy elite units will end up charging these then getting pinned and slaughtered by chariots and TG combined

3 Chariots
Give this unit an extra chariot or give the TP a chariot, don't mind but really you want 4 chariots somehow

5 Carrion
As earlier, I believe 4 carrion are effective enough and would slim this to 4 carrion for the points. Alternatively running two units of 3 carrion might be interesting...

Tomb Scorpion
Scorpions, woot! These are a must, an army without at least 1 unit of chariots and 1 tomb scorpion isn't a legal tomb kings army, honest... I am sure it is the rules soemwhere :p

Rare
2 SCC + SoF
SoF is vital for SSCs I think, increases running chance of Ld7 units by 1/6 and even chaos is only Ld 8. Also, consider dropping a SSC for a casket. This will make the magical dominance which you seem to be going for over-kill as you would have 13 dice (6 spells). Remember that an enemy army with a wizard lord and say 2 basic wizards will only have 6 dispel dice. The volume of spells also makes Dispel Scrolls virtually void. Also your army lacks anti-armour weaponry other than these 2 SSCs which are prone to misfires due to the number of shots they put out.

Characters

Prince + VoS + Collar + GW
give this guy a chariot or keep him cheap and drop the VoS.

LHP + Jar + Cloak
Drop Jar, take plaques, give plaques to someone else.
LP + Scroll + Steed
I would drop the scroll and give him a Staff of Ravening
LP + Scroll + Steed
I wouldgive this one the HJ. Also if you want the casket put it here. Drop the Scroll if you need additional points.

Anyway those are my thoughs. Hope they helped. I would say that the amount of magic and units double firing aren't proportionate either. Even if you put the TP in an archer unit until danger gets near your looking at 5 spells with 11 dice, no bound spells of which 3 will probably be dispelled per turn. This means only 2 of your 4 ranged units can double-shoot, which is rather wasteful in my opinion. I think you need more bound spells and perhaps the Casket, because you really need to own the magic phase with this sort of list.

[Vallah]

That's a nice HLP list bud, not much I can add other than to echo the points made by Phoenix.

The only nagging doubt I have is over the loss of the 2nd chariot unit. Heresy though it may be, I would be tempted to try the twin chariots over the scorpion if your testing demonstrates a lack of hammer units.

A little bit of trial and error should help you decide what works best for you though.

[tombkingmarkj]

Core
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
20 Skeletons w/bows
Tomb Swarm (2 bases)
430

Special
20 Tomb Guard + full command + BotUL
3 Chariots
3 Carrion
Tomb Scorpion
572

Rare
2 SCC + SoF
220

Characters

Prince + VoS + Collar + GW + LA
LHP + Plaques + Cloak
LP + 2 X Scroll + Steed
LP + Scroll + HJ Steed
785


Opted to scale down to 3 carrion to allow points for the plaques: at the advice of my esteemed colleagues . Jar placed on LP. Plaques on LHP. Going to stick with the scorpion over the 2nd chariot unit, as I've been playing with 2 chariot units (1 with the prince) recently and finding them less effective against the armies I've come up against.

Not gonna go with the casket, as I need the 2 SSC for some of the nastier things I've been encountering lately - Slanns, Stegadons, Dragons and other big beasty stuff. They're the only really hard hitting thing we have, and I find the casket a bit hit and miss. On an average role of 7 + 2 - Ld, you're looking at perhaps 6 wounds per magic phase, and unless lady luck smiles at you, they probably won't fall where you want them - on that knight unit. The flying skulls, now they have a 1/3 chance of landing exactly where you want them, and with 2 SSC you get 4 goes!

Nonetheless, I'm very grateful for the advice. It has given me some good points to think about and has made my army better. Thanks guys!

[Orthanus]

First one in = ) Lets see

Core
20 Skeletons w/bows + standard
Fine

20 Skeletons w/bows
Fine

Tomb Swarm (2 bases)
Again, fine

430

Special
20 Tomb Guard + full command + BotUL
Good, just make sure you can get these into the combat safely, don't charge them in without flanks guarded or they will be butchered
3 Chariots
You want 4 chariots per unit, honest.

3 Carrion
This I now agree with as val converted me to 3x carrion units. I also did a lot of play testing and he is right, 3 makes a massive psycological difference and takes out warmachines

Tomb Scorpion
woot scorpion
572

Rare
2 SCC + SoF
Woot SSC!
220

Characters

Prince + VoS + Collar + GW + LA
Drop VoS for points. 1 attack less isn't worth the pts

LHP + Plaques + Cloak
Love it.

LP + 2 X Scroll + Steed
You won't need 3 scrolls, you get 6 DD dice and your tomb scorps can take 'proactive magic defence' as it is called, and butcher mages in units.

LP + Scroll + HJ Steed
good, but you won't need 3 scrolls as before
785


Opted to scale down to 3 carrion to allow points for the plaques: at the advice of my esteemed colleagues . Jar placed on LP. Plaques on LHP. Going to stick with the scorpion over the 2nd chariot unit, as I've been playing with 2 chariot units (1 with the prince) recently and finding them less effective against the armies I've come up against.

Not gonna go with the casket, as I need the 2 SSC for some of the nastier things I've been encountering lately - Slanns, Stegadons, Dragons and other big beasty stuff. They're the only really hard hitting thing we have, and I find the casket a bit hit and miss. On an average role of 7 + 2 - Ld, you're looking at perhaps 6 wounds per magic phase, and unless lady luck smiles at you, they probably won't fall where you want them - on that knight unit. The flying skulls, now they have a 1/3 chance of landing exactly where you want them, and with 2 SSC you get 4 goes!
Fair enough. To be honest it largely comes down to personal taste, and I do conceed that the double SSC gives the advantage of reliability. I always without fail get misfire----> cannot fire for this turn or next turn when I only have one.

Nonetheless, I'm very grateful for the advice. It has given me some good points to think about and has made my army better. Thanks guys!

[Vallah]

Not gonna go with the casket, as I need the 2 SSC for some of the nastier things I've been encountering lately

Although I'm a huge fan of the casket, I actually agree with you here bud. Twin SSCs is probably a much stronger choice in a HLP led list because you don't have the hitting power of a king and you should have no trouble getting your incants off with a HLP and plaques (that's a combo that gives me a warm glow if ever there was one ).

The list looks great as it is, but if you did want to up the chariots to a group of four then I would look at dropping one of the swarm bases to free up the points. Not only would this give you some margin for error (ie, attrition) with the only chariot unit but it would also leave you with enough points to add music to an archer block. That's probably about the only change I would make.

Looks like you're ready for business here, tombkingmarkj. Go forth and get some!

[tombkingmarkj]

mmmm a fourth chariot. Decisions, decisons. My problem is that removing a swarm would leave the single swarm, which would then be a waste. I'm inclined the keep the Vambraces. Against most characters that's going to be 1/3 or 1/4 of their attacks taken away, and with hitting on 3s at best, I think its a bargain for 15pts.

On the other hand - 25pts from a scroll + 15 from the vambraces is the cost of a chariot. I don't mind dropping a scroll, but having played against a character last week who nullified one of the attacks of my prince, I found it very frustrating. With 4 attacks, hitting on 3s, if one is taken a away, and one likely misses, that's only two hits. The hit, if you're facing a character lets say with a GW or a magic sword, could make a significant difference....

mmmmmm