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Hey guys. I'm a new TK player, coming from Bretonnia, and I just wanted a bit of advice as far as my Tomb Kings go. I played a game last night against Bretonnia, and got hurt pretty badly. He was running a unit of four Pegasus Knights, and 2 paladins on Pegasus, one as BSB. I got a lucky shot on one and creamed the pegasus :-) Anyways, I'm just wondering about how exactly the Tomb Kings work, heres the list I ran last night
Liche High Priest - Hierophant - 340
Cloak of the Dunes
Neferra's Plaque of Mighty Incantations
Tomb Prince - General - 139
Armour of the Ages
Liche Priest - 305
Casket of Souls
Liche Priest - 160
Staff of Ravening
20 Skeletons - 205
1 Tomb Swarm - 45
3 Chariots - 130
3 Ushabti - 195
23 Tomb Guard - 296
Tomb Scorpion - 85
Screaming Skull Catapult - 110
Skulls of theFoe
for a 2250 list. There were things I liked and things I didnt. And of course there are plenty of things that I did wrong, like charging my chariots into a unit of knights. I think I might try running a Tomb King instead of a LHP, then my chariots will be core, which means I can drop the swarms for another scorpion. Also I think I might get rid of the casket, and fill it with...? More Skeletons? Bone Giant? Another Catapult?
Here's another problem... Skeletons suck. I was always hitting on 4's and always wounding on fours. And if the few guys who might have lived managed to nail those, they still had a 2+ armor save. I really liked the Ushabti, and the Tomb Guard are nice.
But anyways, the main question I have is: how does one play Tomb Kings? Thanks for the help. :-)
Blimey, right I'll give it a go.
First off the list you ran last night. It is not a bad defensive list at all, using the Liche High Priest normally means a more conservative, magic heavy approach. You should have been able to rin the show in the magic phase, enabling you to get you units into position for flank charges. If you want to stick with skeles, take tomb guard, flanked by bowmen on one side and prehaps Ushabti on the other, with a catapult and casket, with fast stuff round the edge.
Skeles are rubbish, but you want them for +5 Combat Res and to stall the enemy, enabling you to get a flank charge off. This is the key to Tomb Kings...Magic. You must use your magical dominance to get flank charges off and heal your units. This is why a King is the best Lord choice because it makes our best flanking unit - chariots - core. The list you have should have had the equivilent of 14 Power dice. You need to use this power.
Scorpions are great, as are catapults and carrion. Ushabti are useful in a support role, which is another reason to free up those special slots by making chariots core with a King.
So how do I play Tomb Kings? I use a King in a unit of chariots with three priests, one on a casket and the hierophant with the cloak of the dunes. That gives me 12+ dice per phase to get my units into position, and while that is happening the opponent is so worried about the casket and catapult that you can afford to take you time to get those charges spot on. The rest of my army is chariots and carrion and scorpions. Use ICFB to get at enemy war machines and wizards - it is important to gain complete magical dominance as quickly as possible. Carrion are great for their first turn charge potential and their role as an 'annoyance' unit that the enemy will have to deal with. Also, fly them behind the enemy so that they can crossfire.
The other potion is for defense. This means LHP, Catapults, caskets and bowmen, with blocks of skeles and tomb guard supported by Chariots and Ushabti. This is a much more 'sit back' approach, letting the catapults etc get rid of anything really scary and then finishing off the pieces. The Icon of Rakaph is great on a unit of Tomb Guard Here.
Not everyone likes the casket but I am its biggest fan, opponents are scared half to death by it.
Anyways, hope that sort of helps!
You could spend points different here and there...TK are weak (by T and armour) and expensive (in pts) so you have to spent them carefully.
HLP- 45pts wasted for ward. If something touches him, ward won't help much, as he is easy to wound (T 3, no saves) and can crumble anyway. Cloak is enough protection. Remember that you can always use it again in magic phase, simply cast speed on HLP. Twenty to fourty inches movement is nice.
Prince- 5+ save is meaningless, while +1 wound is nice, a ward would be better. IMO there's nothing better for Prince on foot that ward (either Ankhra or Shapesh) and GW.
Skellies- do not give LA to bowmens, 6+ save won't save you. Let them run naked. You can also remove musicians from both units, Undead do not benefit much from them.
Chariots- remove musician. He is expensive and does little.
Ushabti- Take four. Three is too little. Those thingies are fragile and can crumble fast, extra 3 wounds (and 3 attacks) helps alot. Four Ushabti are still "small" enough to not take half of the table.
Scorpion- IMO there should be always two in army (I know it's hard to do it without Chariots as core). Best TK unit, shinning star of this army.
Tomb Guard- Well, they are the ones who can use command group, and Icon of Rakaph or Banner of Undying Legion. First gives you practically 360 degree line of sight while second boost your magic phase by adding another bound.
SSC- Why only one?
It will be also nice to add some light cavalry to redirect charges.
And the ground did tremble, as the king marched to war...
To be fair, you had a tough matchup for your 1st TK game. RAF (Bret pegasus) lists are quite nasty. Anyway:
Your list, as it is, doesnt look too bad. There are a few changes youd need to make to get it to a decent list. However as Will said you can go totally offensive or defensive.
I find the defensive option works the best, i run a King on foot, Hierophant with the Cloak and Jar, and 2 more priests, one at a casket.
If you want to stick with the high priest, check out the list in the TK army list section made by spector, thats a good one based around the High Priest.
As for changes to your list, only a few.
Take the 4+ward off the high priest.
Swap the Prince's Armour of Ages for the collar of shapesh.
Put the priest with staff on a horse.
Loose all the command from the skellie units, with the possble exception of the musician.
Loose the music from the chariots.
Add 1 Ushabti to the unit.
Add command to the TG (and assuming the prince is here) add 1 more TG too, and give them the banner of undying legion.
Thanks for all the advice guys... so is it plausible to do a more defensive sit back list with a Tomb King? I like the sound of that, I was looking, and all you're getting with a LHP is a little stronger casting, while losing a LOT including points.
Right now the changes I've made to my list are like:
Collar of Shapesh
(what magic items? maybe the terror mask? or Neferra's plaques?)
Staff of Ravening
I havent figured much else out, but I'm thinking like two units of 3 chariots, 1-2 units of 20-25 skeletons (both with bows?), and 2 scorpions, 4 ushabti, 24 TG w/ command and UDL, SSC. Hopefully that'll fit into the points. I'll look soon, but how's that?
Also some other weird questions... Do I have to pursue? can I roll against my Leadership to try not to? Also, it says units can only be affected by certain incantations once per magic phase: Does that mean once successfully, or even if it's dispelled only once? I think I have more questions, but thats it for now.
That quick list you have drawn up look good.
Dont bother with the Scorp armour on the King though, imo it means you are already expecting to loose combat.
Also the Casket priest is fine with no other magic items, its already an expensive model.
As for your other questions, you can roll against Ld (using generals if he is close by too) to not persue if you really want to, although it is a good idea to most of the time. Note if you are overrunning you choose whether to or not, you dont need to test to restrain.
For the Incantations, it means once succesfully each.
Casket already causes Terror.Liche Priest
(what magic items? maybe the terror mask? or Neferra's plaques?)
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Best Lord Choise :
Tomb King - only for assault army list;
Liche High Priest - Good for mixed list, but better for defensive army list;
Khalida - only defensive army list;
Not Necessarily. I play with a King in a defensive list and it works brilliantly. He sits in a unit of 20 archers, with a second unit, SSC and casket harassing the enemy at range. Then when they get close, i try to launch the first charges.
As for the High Priest, he can work really well in a fast assault army, if you take 2 Bone Giants for example.
Khalida you got right though, her, 2 SSC's, 3 prests and archers.
Maybee, but i like to use a thing for what it was designed. Tomb King is designed to lead Fast Chariot army(3-6 chariot blocks), and this is the most powerfull use for him.