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I know that Tomb Kings have some pretty good magic, and it can be overpowering at times. I was curious how you guys set up your armies so that you can rely on your magic.
When I look through the book, I see a lot of potential, but I also see spells that can be dispelled by a balanced force. What I'm asking, is how many Liche Priests do you take, what do you equip them with (tomb kings/ princes and liche [high] priests) so that our magic is as effective as it should be. To put this in perspective lets look at 2000 pts.
Well my setup is as follows
Hierophant with Cloak of Dunes and Hieratic Jar
Mounted Liche Priest with Staff of Ravening
Liche Priest with two scrolls
Sometimes the casket of souls, if not 2 catapults
This gives you enough magic to get on with, but the real key is to nulify enemy wizards as we are not great at dispelling and it will allow us complete magical dominance. My system gives 6 incantations without the jar per turn, equating to 9 power dice. If you add the casket thats 11 dice and your enemy casts at -1. This means you should outmagic most people anyway, and combined with Carrion and Scorpions, you should have enemy wizards deal by turn 2/3 at latest and warmachine dealt with by turn two, (turn one if you cast urgancy on the carrion).
The really magic setup is a Lich High Priest, two priests and a prince, giving you 5 incantations basic on 11 powerdice. combined with magic items this will be uped to 7 incantations basic with 13 powerdice with rerolls for the casting of your LHP. This is a very powerful setup for a defensive Tomb Kings force, as the shere amount of havoc at long range should prove overpowering. Combined with 2 SSC firing twice each a turn, any major threat should be dealt with swiftly.
The most effective set up i have found, and hence the setup i use, for a good balance between good magic offense and defense, whilst still being able to have a lot of other units is:
Tomb King (+Collar and GW)
Hierophant (Cloak and Hieratic Jar)
Priest at a Casket
Many people like to splash out more on their characters, but in keeping them cheap it leaves more points available for the rest of the list, whilst retaining th key elements of the Character roles.
With 6 Incantations, possibly 7 with the Jar (thats 10 incantation dice), i find this enough to get key spells through, especially with the Casket often taking up enemy Scrolls and Dispel dice early on.
My magic defense looks a bit shabby at first, as i have no scrolls. But i dont place much trust in one use only items. I find 5 Dispel dice to be sufficient generally, and the caskets -1 to enemy casting can often be a great bonus. Also now combined with the fact that normal Magic got slightly nefred in 7th ed, i find very little key threats from enemy magic.
Also, dont forget TK still get 2 basic power dice for dispelling remains in play spells.
Ofcourse if you really want to, you can completely overpower with TK magic. Liche High Priest, 2 Priests, a Prince, and a Casket. Thats 6 incantations using a massive 13 dice. On top of that dont forget the 3 bound spells available from magic items. Ofcourse this setup rolls in at atleast 740 points, before any magic items have been considered. This can leave very little for the rest of the army.
My above favoured setup comes to 756points total, and in the rest of the army im also able to fit in 2 large Skellie units, 2 units of 3 Chariots, 4 Ushabti, 5 Carrion, 2 Scorpions and that all important SSC.
(2000pt list)My Army List
Just for anyone who is interested, this is the most recent incarnation of my army, undefeated in friendly play over the summer (about 10 games) W1/D1/L1 competitively. The loss was vs DualTree+BSB WE, the win and draw vs Dwarf gunlines
Last edited by Phoenix; November 13th, 2007 at 01:07.
I haven't put a 2000 point list together, but the 1500 point one I have posted in the army lists forum would probably see the same as what Will said, but maybe not the steed, I only use light cavalry (the heavy horsemen look like all they would acomplish is get bogged down and slaughtered) so I would never risk a character in a 77 point unit, no matter how lucky the number is.
Asking for suggestions without knowing what you're planning on doing is like asking a blind man what color shirt matches your eyes.
Alright, basically there are two ways I run a TK army at 2000 points, and it depends on which lord I'm running.
Liche High Priest List
My personal favorite Tomb King list type. When you think about it without their magic, TK are rather ordinary. So, knowing this, I'm cramming as much magic as I possibly can into this list. It has the equivalent of 13 Power Dice (including the Casket) and 2 bound items. No one is going to stop that in a 2000 point game. Yea, people might look at this list and say its weak. No Tomb King, only 3 chariots, only 1 SSC, only 1 Scorpion, no Tomb Guard. But with all the magic I have, I will be getting a first turn charge with Carrion if I want, my SSC will be firing twice a turn, and the Casket will help to make up for my lesser magic defense (6 DD no scrolls). My magical dominance can dictate how my opponent plays the game, and once I am forcing him to play how I want to, I stand a good chance of winning.
Tomb King List
My other Tomb King list type. Haven't played this list very much lately and am thinking of tinkering with it a bit, maybe getting rid of the Casket for another SSC. But anyways, this list is going to sacrifice some magic (it has 4 less Incantation Dice and 1 less bound spell than the LHP list) for CC power. The Tomb King and his Tomb Guard are a nasty CC unit and the Icon of Rakaph makes it that much easier to get off a charge. With the Destroyer of Eternities, the Tomb King can be either a rank and file killer or a character killer in a challenge (don't forget to cast smiting on his unit the turn you charge ). The Tomb Prince and his skeleton unit are also formidable. The Banner of the Undying Legion gives them staying power and doesn't force a Liche to watch over the unit and they bring a massive amount of CR to the table. Also their high numbers make it easy to outnumber and force an autobreak. Tomb Scorpions will be attempting to assassinate enemy mages/scroll caddies early, making it easier for my magic phase to have an impact on the game.
Really though our magic is a double edged sword though. It's only as good as you the general makes it. I've seen various people on here asking why they can't get their important spells off. If you're casting say Urgency and marching you're skeletons towards my Chosen Warriors of Chaos, I'm probably not going to be burning any DD or scrolls that I could be saving to stop your SSC or Casket. Make every spell count! Take some Carrion and start giving them first turn charges into your opponent's war machines. Start moving your units around to set up flank charges. Start firing your archers twice a turn into his lightly armored units. You'll start seeing more of your Smiting getting through to the SSC. Don't expect the Casket going off much, however. People do seem hellbent on stopping that, for good reason .
EDIT: In closing, find what works for you. Different lists will work for different people. For example, a list like Deceiver's () with his massive archer blocks wouldn't necessarily work for me, as I'm sure my lists wouldn't work as well for him as his lists do. Play test some lists some, and find what works for you.
Last edited by Spector; November 12th, 2007 at 21:36.
Great post Spector. On a side note, PM me your LHP list sometime if you get chance, ill see how i fare with it in a real game when i get home. Ive never tried a LHP at 2K, or if i have it was a very long time ago.
Ooh good idea, ive just edited my first post here with a link to my list too, incase anyones interested. A little unorthodox i know. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, here or by PM.
Anyway, sorry back on topic now i think...
Thanks Spector and Deceiver for the lists, they were very helpfull. Just something I noticed. Both (or all three) of your lists included a Casket of Souls in them, which limites the number of Screaming Skull Catapults you can put in your lists. Now, I was hopeing to have 2 SSC in my list, because sure, with magic 1 SSC can shoot as much as 2, but 2 can shoot as much as 4!!!
However, since it will cost exactly the same ammount of money anyways, I'm curious to know why its so potent. We can put out 3 bound spells on top of our normal magic (well I'd only use 2 of them, but the options always there), and it's stationary. Have you found that it playes a big role in your games, and how survivable is it? (being stationary and all)
The casket effects every unit that can see it therefore is great against armies that field alot of small units, think Chaos (demon based) Ogres, DE, WE, Lizards, Empire, Brettonians. In all of these you just need to beat the leader ship to start killing models and only ward saves stop you, lethal against all armies. Therefore the opponent will probably save 3 DD or a scroll to prevent it going off. Which is great!
Our most lethal spell is the free movement Phase, followed by the free shooting phase. The free movement phase is generally used in turns 2-4 to get charges off. the more dispel scrolls you can remove from the enemy in turn 1 due to SSC shots and the Casket the easier later magic phases become when its more important!
So the Balance Between the casket and the SSC is simply, the SSC is a more real threat which will do more damage in the short term! The Casket may never do any damage itself, but will help you to control a magic phase, which could give you the win. Both are good choices!
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