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Hey guys and gals this is my First post, i have read many posts on this forum and I am v.impressed with intelligent and highly useful suggestions being put forward for the Tomb Kings in particular.
Super Unit champions
I dont know whether this covering old ground but i hope that this thread is putting forward a fresh perspective on Champions, particularly Skeleton Champions in fully ranked up units e.g 20 models or more with 3+ ranks.
I have recently played several 2K games against a new High Elf player using a two dragon 'themed' (Caledorian) list. Cheese anyone?
Trust me this a filthy combination and unless you kill them early flying monsters can be a real pain!
In our first game his Prince on a brand spanking new star dragon got a 2nd turn charge into my 20 strong unit of Skellie Warriors and ended up killing 7 models on the charge and 2 through combat resolution crumbling (CR 7 vs. 5), 9 total!!! Needless to say the following turn the rest of the unit fell apart, lacking in ranks and numbers to give combat resolution and he was set up for further charges in his own turn, needless to say after so easily destroying one of my important tarpit units he won convincingly!
The following game the same thing happened again although this time he charged my Tomb Guard unit 20 strong, 5 x 4, which i always run with a full command and as a bit of a joke i challenged his character with my plucky TG champion, who obviously died a horrible death, however upon looking up the rules for challenges i see that the maximum kill bonus for combat resolution is +5 on top of the one wound for the champion. So he gets +6CR and I get +5(3 ranks, Banner and Outnumbering), so in effect i lose two models... total...thats it, 600+ points on an uber character, how much wasted attack power is that!
If you combine this with the fact that our champions are raisable and are always raised first when the raising incantation is cast it is a strategy that can be used again and again to protect the vulnerable core models from high strength character attacks and the inevitable crumbling that follows!
This strategy is brilliany for our tarpit infantry units, that many fast moving enemy characters may see as easy meat...well bones! This includes Nike Jaguar Saurus, Alter Kindred Nobles and characters on flying monstrous mounts. Obviously the two earlier examples are unlikely to charge against fully ranked up undead units due to the psychology but hey some people are just foolish enough to go there and in the latter case these uber models look so good on paper that less experienced generals will believe they are capable of defeating anything let alone ws 2 undead!
I think this amount of defensive potential for the measly points cost, invites their inclusion in any list.
I have not lost to this HE dragon army since, and i think this point illustrates why large flying monsters are not often seen, being fabulous against light targets but unable to combat the rank and file which IMHO warhammer fantasy is really all about.
Thanks for taking the time to read this guys, longer than i thought it would be lol and of course any feedback, would be much apprecated!
Hex soz guys for double postin i am a newbie
Last edited by LOTHAR-HEX; November 20th, 2007 at 15:21.
Originally i played with Champions in units, purely as i was just starting out and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Then i scrapped them realising they never seemed to achieve much. Generally that assumption i find to be correct, especially when i have a Prince/King to take Challenges.
However, more recently ive noticed how the point you have made and explained so well above is so true, and so helpful. Ofcourse it depends on the resurrection spell working and not being dispelled, but assuming that all goes to plan then it is a great way to nullify Uber enemy Characters.
Hence now, when giving advice on others lists, I have even begun to occasionally recommend champions! Never thought i would, but there you go. Only on large Skellie units though, i still have no reason to support Cavalry or Chariot Champions. Maybe its out there somewhere...
P.S, thanks for the great comments about the forum, we do our best!
Hey thanks Deceiver, really appreciate the comments.
The above is like everything else in the TK list, in that it relies on synergy of efforts, particularly with regards to our magic phase, this is the factor that really defines effective TK lists IMHO.I very much agree with your point in the main and it was my way of thinking as well. But the tag team offers many options, if you team a Tomb King with a champion, the champ takes the hit in the challenge, but then you get the opportunity to hit that uber-nasty in the magic phase of your following turn... DoE anyone? before hopefully challenging again with the raised champ, or if weakened maybe with the Tomb King if his attacks are likely to kill his opponent. Of course all this will only work if you get lucky with the incantations.Originally i played with Champions in units, purely as i was just starting out and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Then i scrapped them realising they never seemed to achieve much. Generally that assumption i find to be correct, especially when i have a Prince/King to take ChallengesI am totally with you on this, an extra S4 attack when charging in either case is not worth the points and they are not required for these units to perform their roles admirably.Only on large Skellie units though, i still have no reason to support Cavalry or Chariot Champions.