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The big question,
right now I have 2 units of 20 skeleton warriors with hand weapon, light armour and shields.
they never disappointed me but now I have changed my list.
And because of lack of points I had to remove my beloved chariot of fire from the chariot prince.
And since people here seemed very found of 20 archers I started thinking.
For 20 points cheaper (this way I can buy chariot of fire) I have a unit that can shoot with a max of 20 arrows, 40 with magic BUT have a WS 2, T 3 and no armour save.
Another disadvantage is that for them in order to shoot that many arrows they have to stand in one line of 20 skeletons or on a hill.
This is a bad thing for the rest of my army because they stand in front of my other skellies unit and my TG unit with prince.
sorry for the long story but please tell me your thoughts.
thanks in advance
I think it may just be ME around here who is fond of using archers in large units like that to be honest, and ill give you my reasoning:
- To be fair, the change was initially to make room form othe things in my lists, much like you want the Flaming Chariot.
-I run them in 2 ranks of 10 at the beginning of a game, and use magic in early turns to get 1 or 2 kills in larger enemy units in order to deny them a rank bonus in combat. Also good for weakening small lightly armoured units early on.
-Magic is useful on them. Especially if you run a Prince in their unit, then atleast his magic has somewhere to go early on, while your Priests are trying to cast on SSCs etc
-Later on when the enemy gets close, i reform into a combat sponge unit, 5 wide and however many deep i can get.
Now comes the whole Save vs No save arguement. And the way i look at it is this:
- Against anything with a decent Str, your save will be reduced or negated anyway, so it wont help much there. This is quite often, and with the 5+ mor 6+ Sv remaining then youll only make 1 or 2 on average against a mass of attacks. These are easily made up for when casting a Healing spell, and also the fact youll be loosing 1 less skellie from crumbling, as the bows mean you would have taken out a rank of theirs.
Just as good a sponge i think, with the correct spell support.
haha Yes i remember that it's because of your advice I am asking this advice.
I saw a player at my local club use 20 archers in one line (but it just takes to up much room). But 20 arrows a phase is nasty.
And the unit isn't that expensive any more. 170 points when they have a banner.
I think I am going for 1 unit with bows and the other with the save.
Okey, the thing you said about killing a few models for as many enemy unit as they can just to break one rank bonus is a very good compensation for the lack of armour.
But as a expert in a unit like this please tell me,
Do they work great as a sponge unit or do you miss the armour?
I mean off-course with the resurrect spells you can heal them and it's all fine BUT at this time you need to cast more important spells on other units (like chariot charging or healing your elite units e.t.)
All my posts I stress having the archers. Our army is slow and we need to widdle down the oncoming armies before they get close.
I say archers every time! Go with TG for block units.
Also, being the slowest unit in the army, and in my list, they are often the last ones to reach combat, so by that time my spells have switched from movement and shooting concentratiuon, to combat, resurrection and and support concentration.
Another thing to note though, being so cheap i often use my skellies (unit without the king in) as a throw away unit to hold up a key enemy unit until the point at which i can deal with them nicely.
For example, Lizzie Kroxigor. If my SSC hasnt managed to get rid of them early on, and they get too close, then there isnt much that TK have which would be able to stand up to these guys. If i can get a Charge with my Ushati against them then i will, but if there are 2 units then the odds are really against me. Hence i will look towards throwing a Skellie unit in their path, and allowing them to be charged. 4 Krox do a nice amount of damage in just 1 turn, and bearing in mind my skellies have to last 2 combat rounds before i get a chance to cast spells, its something that can work to my advantage.
Bear with me... Krox do a lot of damage in 1 turn. Lets say i have 20 skellies when the Krox charge. Krox kill 7, and with Cres my number falls to 10. Now, i need to survive my combat round atleast in order for the Krox to not take the initiative and be able to charge again. With my magic i will then raise D6 skellies into that unit, in the hope that there will just be 1 or 2 left at the end of my phase (ive already accepted that the whole unit will be gone by the start of my next turn) Then the rest of my magic is free to concentrate on getting into a good Krox counter position.
Ok, so given Krox's uber high Str, then this works just as well with HW/S/LA skellies, but they are more expensive, meaning you loose more Vpts (also, my skellies dont have banners). But the same principle and ideas can be applied to other situations with say, S4 or 5 enemies with good statlines (Elite Chaos Warrior units for example) For you to stand a better chance of dealing with them.
Summing up, as a sponge they are far more tactical that HW/S/LA skellies, as careful sacrifice and control of the Unit Size can do a lot to turn the tide of a battle.
Well i would really like to try out using skele blocks without armour, but recently i have replaced my skele blocks for TG. Though in the past when i used skeletons I equiped them with armour. Getting a 4+ save in combat isnt bad at all for the extra point. But my purpose for them was to take on normal units, they met equal rivals so their armour didnt get negated. Though if the rival has a lot of high stat units loosing the armour would probably be more beneficial. Right now i run something like a unit of 19 TG and maybe 20 archers on a hill. Its been working really well. But yes anyways, in summary, If you can match up with a fair unit, take the armour. If you think your skeletons will get destroyed(fighting OK) loose the armour.
Also, its arguable thaat we are the slowest army. I think that Dwarves suffer the most. At least we can charge up to 12 inches or more with anything other than skeles/swarms. 12 > 6.
I've been using one block of 20 archers and one of 25 armoured skellies for some time now. Quite frankly the archer boys nearly always outperform the armoured skellies in the course of a battle and they are especially useful for whittling down an opponent before you hit combat. I'd advise against two units because of the problems with deployment, you can't always rely on having a hill, but would certainly recommend one unit. They're great for a prince to be positioned with so his magic has threatening result in your magic phase, rather than one your opponent care mearly ignore and let through. Being so wide, they offer somewhat increased movement to your characters when you can move them to anywhere in the front rank which helps greatly in keeping magic coverage of your army. Be wary of fast moving characters and flyers however, as if you are stretched out and charged, then you only have two combat res. For the aforementioned reason i'd suggest a musician in your archer unit.
Yes against such an opponent it's better to have archers.
But against normal troops (strenght 3 or even 4) the armour saves half off the normal casualties.
The thing is that when I field my TK army I just don't have to space to field them in a tactical way (for me),
I mean If I deploy them in one row of 20 archers they block line of sight of half my army and that's just don't fit with my style of play (and battleplans).
But after thinking about my precious chariot of fire I really wanted to have the 20 points of loosing the LA.
So I will but I think I just give them a hand weapon and shield for a 5+ armour save in CC.
I think most of you don't think it's the best way but with my style of play it's for me the best thing to do.
But thanks for your thoughts because of it I even got the idea to drop the LA on skellies for extra improvements in my army.