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Alright, I know this topic has been discussed a lot. However with the new Vampire book out now, and the excellent options they get for their BSB, I really thought that we could take another look at this.
The first and possibly easiest option (albeit the least fluffy) would be to let the Tomb Prince also have the option to carry the battle standard for +25 points. This would disallow him from being the general. Not really the best solution in my opinion.
The other option is making the Icon Bearer a worthwhile upgrade. Compared to the Wight King, he has the same WS and S, and -1 T, I, W, A, and Ld. The Wight King also gets Heavy Armor and Shield standard, and both get Killing Blow weapons (Wight Blade and Tomb Blade respectively). The Icon Bearer however, doesn't have to pay for the BSB upgrade. Also, you can make a strong arguement that VC at the moment have much better banners (both TK and VC have good lower priced banners, VC have useful high point banners for the BSB only, TK do not) and equipment in general (sword that gives the Wight King KB on a 5+ for instance).
Now we also have to be mindful of not making the Icon Bearer as good as a Tomb Prince, since it wouldn't fit fluff-wise. I would personally like to see the IB get +1 T and +1 A. This brings him up to the same T as our other combat characters, and up to the same number of attacks as the Prince. This would be appropriate fluff-wise as it would bring him more inline with the King's champion that he is supposed to be (compared to the kind of pathetic fighter he is compared to a prince at the moment). This still keeps the Prince as the superior combat hero in the sense that he has +1 WS and W on the Icon Bearer.
Finally, I'd like to see one more change to either the structure of our army or the Icon Bearer. Due to how important magic is to our army, it is not always feasible to take an Icon Bearer in games under 3000 points. It would be very nice to see one of two changes:
- Allow Tomb Kings' armies to take an extra hero than normally allowed similar to what Bretonnia is able to do. Both armies are required to take 1 more character than normal, but they are allowed an extra character where Tomb Kings are not.
- Give the Icon Bearer a version of "My Will Be Done." Let him have a similar version to a Tomb Prince, but only on a power level of D3, instead of D6.
I really hope that some change is made to the Icon Bearer so that he is made into a better hero choice for us. The BSB's ability to take 1 less crumble damage from CR is a very nice addition to a TK army, but one that isn't currently used at games under 3000 points due to our need for magic.
Last edited by Spector; March 22nd, 2008 at 01:35.
If we could get an extra character slot than I would consider taking him. You hit the nail on the head with the importance of our magic. I would never lose a priest for an Icon bearer.
I heartfully agree about the extra hero slot.
A Tau Ethereal was thought to have been killed today by a Bloodthirster. However, many Tau were seen fleeing the scene and are considered suspects.
Nice post Spec, ill gather my thoughts here too..
Bearing in mind Bretonnians get an extra Character slot to ccomadate their two compulsry Characters, TK should get the same.
I think the current Statline is fine. He needs Heavy Armour as an option (as should the TK and TP have) Also weapon options, Spear or Flail, both retain Tomb Blades rule.
MWBD on a D3 is a must if he is ever going to be taken in a serious game/ist, even with the extra Char slot i think.
Magic Banners, we could do with some better ones.
Banner of the Hidden Dead
- Raise a unit Pre Charging, so they could charge they turn. OR
- Add +1 to ICFB arrival, and also you didnt scatter. OR
- You could ICFB wherever you wanted to at the time, with no need to place set markers pre game.
Any of those would be awesom, the last one especially i think.
Marching Banner (75pts?)
Any TK unit within 6" of banner may march.
Incantation banners (25pts each)
4 of them, each contains one incanttaion as a Bound Spell PL 3. This combined with MWBD would make Heavy Cav good, and useful!
PS, would anyone here fancy giving the whole TK book a rewrite, LO style! i.e like GW would do, only we would make a good job of it...
And when we finish, opponants may even be willing to let us use it! It would be quite cool as we could expariment with Sphinxs etc, under balanced conditions.
Last edited by Phoenix; March 22nd, 2008 at 13:25.
I'm not sure an extra hero slot would be what we need to get the IB in play. Lets be honest, if we had another hero slot we would just bring another Lich Priest or Tomb Prince for more domination of magic or CC.
I think the TK IB needs two things to get him in play.
1. Banners good enough to justify leaving that extra LP or TP at home. Hard to say what that would be, but right now your trading incantations or CC power for some decent effects...but not really enough to justify.
2. The IB needs to take up some different slot. I.E. The IB becomes a 0-1 hero choice that doesnt take up a hero slot. Instead if an IB is put in a CORE troop choice unit, that unit now counts as special choice, if the IB is joined to a special unit, then that unit now counts as a rare choice. And in no instance may the IB leave its chosen unit.
I personally would like to see some variation of the second to take place. Its not over powered or cheezy, you still have to make sacrifices to get that unit of Tomb Guard with an IB, but now it could be worth doing. Obviously we need to see some of #1 happen too, our low point banners are great, but our expensive uber banners are less so.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
How about him being a 0-1 selection per Tomb King, and a Core Choice which doesnt count towards the limit, like Swarms dont?
There are so many things that they could do to make the Icon Bearer worth taking...
Make him not take up a character slot... Give us some decent high point banners to make them more plausible... or give an IB the diminished "will be done"
But for me I think the icon Bearers stats don't do the best to portray what he was in life. He carried the personal Standard of the Tomb King! That means that he would have been something special in his life... this is the guy that was the most trusted warrior of the Tomb King and his statline dosen't show that...
To me this should mean adding at least an extra attack giving him 1 more than a TG champ. and even up that WS. Even give him a weapon choice to throw in there... like a great weapon (maybe that's a bit over the top)...
But the other thing which has always stuck out to me is our lack good banners above 50 pts. You look at other races and their banners and you can see the potentials they offer however ours are lacking.
2 Banners 1 stops marching for a turn and the other allows a small core unit to be buried. They just don't seem like they offer that much to the tomb king player... give me a banner that gives our units some more survivablity or increases our magic output (especially that if an IB0 is going to take up a hero slot because we lose out on it.)
I was thinking of a banner that allows you to re roll any "will be done" and incantation rolls as long as the icon bearer is within 18" of the "caster" Something like that would definitly increase out magic potential which at the end of the day is crucial to TKs.
That being said it is one of the cheapest characters around and often the simple solution is the best and just drop him as a model that takes up a character slot...