7th Edition Wishlist

[Nagash]

**WARNING: ANOTHER LONG BORING (SINCE NAGASH WROTE IT) POST**

Some good Ideas over there I will only quote the ones that I want to discuss, the rest of it was good, I think

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*To alleviate/eliminate the General/Hierophant conundrum (which drives me crazy at 2k and below), allow Tomb Kings and Princes to purchase an upgrade (or an enchanted item) to allow them to cast Incantations as a Liche Priest (but not LHP...let's leave Settra with something, I suppose) in addition to MWBD! As such, said upgraded TK/TP can function as both General and Hierophant (if no LHPs are used) and generates an extra dispel die.

I would say NO to this one It is one of the charms being a TK Player; General and Hierophant...

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*DO NOT CHANGE THE NATURE OF OUR MAGIC!!! It doesn't work like other races magic and as such, should be harder to dispel/counter. -1 penalty to dispel for LP only, -2 to dispel for LHP only. Does not apply to TK/TP who are also LPs. To balance this, maybe make it harder for us to dispel traditional spells also if this is viewed as too OPed by itself.

I don't really think this would work... But it is a rather cool Idea Maybe instead we should have +1/+2 to cast?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Add a few new incantations to give us a total of 6. Maybe one that duplicates the effects of the Mirage Standard. And another "quicksand" type spell that impacts enemy movement maybe by making the targetted unit unable to march?

Nah, too OP! Our "Magic Level 2" LPs already knows 4(!) spells... Quite funny But there could be a fifth spell that only the High Priest knows. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Add a few fluffy and effective Hero level characters. Why are all our characters friggin' Lords?!? An Ushabti character for construct heavy armies (akin to Troll King Throgg). Also a Barrow Wight (or was it Barrow Lord? I'm at work and don't remember/have my book) character that further upgrades the Tomb Guard.

Hahaha! You're right... Just wanted to clarify that point

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Make LA/S standard equipment on Skeleton Warriors. Spear Upgrade (+1/model). Flail Upgrade (+2/model). Spears will still suck but at least charging skeletons would be moderately scary! Spears should ASF vs. all chargers but GW is being hateful.

Good Idea to make Skellies different to each others

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Make LA standard on Skeleton Bowmen (just couldn't stand not to change it )(mainly for yucks). Arrows of the Asp Upgrade (+2/model). Being forced to run a special character for this practically necessary upgrade is silly imho.

*Arrows of the Asp Upgrade (+2/model) for Skeleton Light Horsemen.

Or just give them +1 BS via an upgrade of two points/model?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Light Chariots crewed by Skeletons made into a Core Unit otherwise, as is. Cannot have more Light Chariot units than units of skeletons (archers/warriors combined).

Making Skellies mainstay?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Heavy Chariots crewed by Tomb Guard 80-100points per model? Follows standard chariot rules with all traditional chariot upgrades (i.e. scythed wheels). Cannot rank up/form units. Crewed by a TG champion who may take a 25 point magic item of choice and a TG driver (la/tomb blade). TK/TP/IB can all opt to ride a standard chariot as opposed to a Light one for +cost.

It shouldn't fit too well with the fluff, since the Charioteers already are highly respected "noblemen" and Tomb Guards are the Guards of the Tomb.

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Ushabti get Light Armor included in price, heavy armor upgrade option and option for an additional ritual blade (+4/model each). Constructs shouldn't have armor restrictions!

Armour: good
Additional ritual blade: It could be hard to balance those blades if there were one in each hand of the Ushabtis, agreed?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Carrion US2 each. Maybe reintroduce Carrion mounts for LP/LHP?

Carrion mounts would be awesome It would fit well to my "Legion of the Carrion-King" too!

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*I actually like the Casket of Souls as is...maybe a slight reduction in price, but I don't want it undispellable nor moveable. 4 CGs instead of 2 would be nice and for the love of all that's holy, give them the ability accept challenges for the LP since they have TG Champion stats. Oh, allow the LP to "sacrifice" 1 of the CG to the casket per turn for an increase in power...either for a d6 to the power level or to add a d3 to the effect. But once sacrificed, this TG may not be raised by the Incantation of Summoning.

Haha, that sacrifice would be EVIL Maybe the soul of the Guard would keep the other souls at bay, correcting them where to go. This could, as you said, add D3 to the effect - great Idea!

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Undead should be able to stand-and-shoot. I have no problem with not being able to flee but only being able to hold...really?!?

Aaaaaaaaaargh! Yeah...

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Undead creatures should not be affected by diseases or poisons, nor should any construct. But that's the D&D nerd in me speaking. I mean seriously, how do you give a skeleton the plague? How do you poison a stone statue?

By the term"Poison" in game it means "something that is more effective against the opponent". A wise General knows what Enemy he will face, and changes the poison for what is effective. Example:

(Enemy - Poison)
Undead - Holy Water
Humanoid - Chemical Dirt
Daemon - Holy Water
Construct - Anything that makes the construct corrosive

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*Give us an expanded magic item list with an item capable of granting a character Regeneration and a shield that would make one mummified character not flammable (but don't allow them both on the same character). Banners with each standard incantation bound to it is pure win!

Agreed More Magic Items for the Win!

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

*And please...more magic defense. For an army so reliant on the magic phase for success, our magic defense is terrible.

How would it be if we started with 3 DDs instead of 2?



//Nagash

[Enigmatik1]

It pleases me to know that my suggestions were not entirely without merit! I have been lurking here for some time, but only recently have I begun to make my presence known (and played my first full game with my TK army...that I lost...barely.) Anyway, here goes!

Originally Posted by Nagash

I would say NO to this one It is one of the charms being a TK Player; General and Hierophant...

Fair enough. It is just irksome at games below 2k imho...which is all I've played so far. I can tell by coming up with 2k+ unconventional lists that I'd like to try (like my Twin Prince list) that this feature is much less of an issue. So we can scratch that.

Originally Posted by Nagash

I don't really think this would work... But it is a rather cool Idea Maybe instead we should have +1/+2 to cast?

That could work too. I like imposing penalties on my opponents probably more than seeing bonuses to myself. Either would work and would simulate how different our magic is from traditional (read: boring) lores.

Originally Posted by Nagash

Nah, too OP! Our "Magic Level 2" LPs already knows 4(!) spells... Quite funny But there could be a fifth spell that only the High Priest knows. Thoughts?

Yeah...I thought this right after I hit "submit reply" on my way home for lunch. I'd be good with a 5th spell for the LHPs...especially if it were a debuff.

Originally Posted by Nagash

Hahaha! You're right... Just wanted to clarify that point

Before deciding firmly on TKs as my first real army (I had an Empire army in 3rd edition and haven't played since), I pondered over WoC, OK, Dwarfs and Brettonia. They have SO many cool (Throgg is among my favorites in the entire game) special characters that aren't Lords...why don't we? Note: My gaming group frowns heavily on SC Lords, but don't seem to mind the Heroes.

Originally Posted by Nagash

Good Idea to make Skellies different to each others

I wasn't sure about this one...but if they are slightly different statistically, then why not?

Originally Posted by Nagash

Or just give them +1 BS via an upgrade of two points/model?

Anything is an improvement imo. I just want them to be slightly more effective without the necessity for a SC Lord.

Originally Posted by Nagash

Making Skellies mainstay?

As they should be...I just feel that they are a bit too weak as is under the current trend of uber mainstay units with their tricky dance moves and high impact gyrations (snicker) and ItP/Unbreakable crap out there. Price isn't an issue so long as I'm getting a fair shake...against many of the 7th edition armies, we simply aren't.

Originally Posted by Nagash

It shouldn't fit too well with the fluff, since the Charioteers already are highly respected "noblemen" and Tomb Guards are the Guards of the Tomb.

I am an Egyptology buff (hence why I chose TK) but Loremaster I'm not. So if you say it doesn't fit...scrap it.

Originally Posted by Nagash

Armour: good
Additional ritual blade: It could be hard to balance those blades if there were one in each hand of the Ushabtis, agreed?

Another one of those "that was kinda retarded" things on the way home. Agreed. Although they do appear to be bladed on both ends so maybe Ritual Blades could function like Slayer Axes?

Originally Posted by Nagash

Carrion mounts would be awesome It would fit well to my "Legion of the Carrion-King" too!

I aim to please. A friend gave me some old Undead units to use to try to get me over 2k and I couldn't help but think..."Where are these guys now? Screw you Cloak of the Dunes, I've got a giant, angry, undead vulture to peck out my enemy's eyes!"

Originally Posted by Nagash

Haha, that sacrifice would be EVIL Maybe the soul of the Guard would keep the other souls at bay, correcting them where to go. This could, as you said, add D3 to the effect - great Idea!

This gives it a chance of being fielded vs. Dwarfs and other high universal LD armies (read: annoying). It might be a bit much, but the flair of using it as I envisioned was just too yummy to not mention. People either are terrified of it or outright ignore it, I just want it somewhere in the middle.

Originally Posted by Nagash

By the term"Poison" in game it means "something that is more effective against the opponent". A wise General knows what Enemy he will face, and changes the poison for what is effective. Example:

(Enemy - Poison)
Undead - Holy Water
Humanoid - Chemical Dirt
Daemon - Holy Water
Construct - Anything that makes the construct corrosive

Now that you mention it...I recently read this somewhere else. Ok, I'll let it slip. But my D&D nerdchild is in a state of outright revolution!

Originally Posted by Nagash

How would it be if we started with 3 DDs instead of 2?

Anything is better than we currently have. Taking a quick gander at my normal opponents, all of them could easily negate my magic phase with their standard lists without even trying (except the Wood Elf player, who hates his lores and only fields one wizard at 2k, if he fields one at all). To compound that, I'm always hard pressed to put a dent in their magic phases. The High Elf player carries 3-5 more PD than I have DDs regularly...so does the Lizardman and the Skaven player. While usually having as many DDs as I have "effective PDs". I just want a chance to get spells out without having to squeeze in every bound item on our list and the casket (I will be running the Casket anyway, but there are times when I may not want the BotUL or Enkhil's Kanopi).

[Nagash]

I'll try to shorten this conversation a bit Feel free to continue on other points aswell

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

Before deciding firmly on TKs as my first real army (I had an Empire army in 3rd edition and haven't played since), I pondered over WoC, OK, Dwarfs and Brettonia. They have SO many cool (Throgg is among my favorites in the entire game) special characters that aren't Lords...why don't we? Note: My gaming group frowns heavily on SC Lords, but don't seem to mind the Heroes.

If we're lucky, we may achieve Special Heroes in the 7th ed First of all, I would suggest that you convince Phoenix to make a special Hero to the 6.5th ed

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

I wasn't sure about this one...but if they are slightly different statistically, then why not?

WS/BS - 3/2 - 2/3

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

Another one of those "that was kinda retarded" things on the way home. Agreed. Although they do appear to be bladed on both ends so maybe Ritual Blades could function like Slayer Axes?

Haha I think the awesome S6 of the Ushabtis already comes from that enormous blade... Maybe, if say adding +1 S ( total of S7, enough to beat Chariots - more Strength would be Overkill) or +1 A depending on how the Player wants his Ushabtis to wield their blades?

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

Now that you mention it...I recently read this somewhere else. Ok, I'll let it slip. But my D&D nerdchild is in a state of outright revolution!

I understand that


//Nagash, the Corrupt

[Everchosen]

As far as named characters go, I imagine it would happen something like this:

Lord - Settra, another king (Phar?)
Heroe - Khalida, the prince in golden armour (would make an awesome model), then maybe a Liche Priest special

[Enigmatik1]

Originally Posted by Everchosen

As far as named characters go, I imagine it would happen something like this:

Lord - Settra, another king (Phar?)
Heroe - Khalida, the prince in golden armour (would make an awesome model), then maybe a Liche Priest special

I wouldn't be adverse to Settra being a Lord available in 2k. I only wish he generated more dispel dice seeing as how he's the only Liche Priest you can field. I really don't see him as a power dice liability if you build your army to take advantage of his special MWBD!

I'd like to see one more Lord choice (keeping our current two), and 3-4 special choices with one character built around running a construct heavy army.

[Everchosen]

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

I wouldn't be adverse to Settra being a Lord available in 2k. I only wish he generated more dispel dice seeing as how he's the only Liche Priest you can field. I really don't see him as a power dice liability if you build your army to take advantage of his special MWBD!

I'd like to see one more Lord choice (keeping our current two), and 3-4 special choices with one character built around running a construct heavy army.

I just see Khalida as a better hero choice, and Phar as a more suitable lord choice, obviously him and Settra couldnt be in the same army. And 2 Special Lords should be enough IMO.

[Herald of Huanchi]

Originally Posted by Enigmatik1

I'd like to see one more Lord choice (keeping our current two), and 3-4 special choices with one character built around running a construct heavy army.

Perhaps they could use Prince Tutankhanut who had a golden body made for himself, automatic 5+ construct save anyone?

[jsschurman]

Sorry if this has been posted already, but how do people feel about combining the two horsemen choices? Essentially giving skeleton light horsemen spears and either shields or light armor or both.

[Wafflebob]

Pretty huge list, I don't really have the patience to read through it all so just going to list a couple of things.

Overall I think the army is very good and I don't see a lot of glaring problems with it. I think I'd like to see a 4+ save on Ushabti and Scorpions, but it's not necessary.

I think the bone giant needs a WS buff. It's got a lot of raw power but it's no good if the thing can't hit. Either that or it needs special rules like a regular giant.

I like the magical movement phases but I think there should be a more reliable way to get your minions moving. Perhaps units containing a hero can march, or units within a certain range of a hero.

Both light and heavy cavalry need help. I think light cavalry should be able to do the feigned flee like regular light cavalry. Both units should be able to march. The heavy cavalry is extra crappy. Slow, unarmored and low attack power. It needs to be buffed up so it can actually hit like heavy cavalry. It's worthless for any purpose right now.

Just make chariot units core already. This ridiculous, core if it's led by a tomb king or special if it's led by a priest is just silly.

As far as heroes go I have several ideas.
1) Scrap the icon bearer, princes carry battle standards
2) buff the icon bearer. Perhaps his icon can cast a bound spell similar to the princes in addition to being able to be a magic banner?
3) either make icon bearers not take a hero slot, or give us an extra hero slot in each point category. Other armies that are forced to take 2 specific heroes get an extra hero choice if they wish.

[Enigmatik1]

Those are good suggestions, Wafflebob. I also think the army overall is pretty good. I have some issues with our various skeleton units in today's unbreakable/stubborn/ItP/elite-stats-but-core-slot environment, but otherwise I'm actually very happy.

Most people seem to not want Princes as Icon Bearers in my travels. What's odd is that Icon Bearers have the same stats as Wights from the VC book, and serve the same purpose yet I don't think people complain about them in that context.

How would people feel about giving the Icon Bearer the ability to generate 2 dispel dice? I was thinking about alternative ways to make him more attractive above and beyond the standard "give him an incantation." It's no secret our army has issues with magic defense. This might be one way to alleviate this issue, without overpowering the character.

I finally got around to looking at the Vampire Counts book this weekend, and while I have no desire to be anything resembling a copy of them. I was surprised by the amount of choices they have. Choices/options = good! Needless to say, I'm very glad that no one in my gaming group runs them...although I felt a slight temptation to build me a VC army now. For which, I deeply apologize.