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Played the first couple rounds of the tournament ladder, and i'm glad to say I did fairly well for 1000 points. with 2 wins and 2 losses.
I wrecked the High Elfs, and Dwarfs, on the other hand the Ogres and Wood Elfs tore me a new one. Against the wood elfs I made some poor tactical mistakes, but with the ogres I just couldn't seem to hurt them. I just couldn't kill a whole model in order to drop those attacks.
In my defense turn 2 he got incredibly lucky with the dispells witch probably lost me the game.
But my question lies in, how can I do enough wounds to the ogres? I was thinking giving my prince the Flail of Skulls, but then that leaves no points left over for protection. What do you guys think will help break the ogres.
I know next friday we have a rematch and he will be tooling his list against undead kind, so I expect plenty of magic defense.
How do you suggest I take down these beasts?
Well mate, first off. What tactics did you use against him?
But for tooling a list just try to gear away from what he expects. Since he will be getting a high magic defence try not to rely so heavily on the magic phase. Have a priest to sit back and raise undead and/or help the catapult with an extra shot. For ogres you need speed bumps, skeletons in big groups work well at this. Also a common mistake that orge players use it to have huge squad. He'll most likely not have a rank bonus so if you can combine charges into his unit and they fall back you can run them off the board. I a fairly new to fantasy but i did that with my orks and goblins and a huge unit of ogres, it was my sweeping advance type thing that killed them if i remember correctly. Carriots are really good for this but at 1000pts they can be a bit expensive.
In addition to the above if you cant manage to break him then just speed bump with expendable troops and take him out from range with bows and catapult shots.
Also posting your list might help
So dont kill them, break them!
Last edited by rookai; March 23rd, 2008 at 08:00. Reason: Adding stuff
At 1K, starting off, Ogres can seem like the impossible army to beat. I struggled hugely with them when i began. Now, they are probably one of the easiet foe i have. The Key? Low Ld... and a severe lack of antimagic, unless they pay huge points.
Max out on Characters, but they need to stay cheap. Keep yout Prince on foot. Hierophant with the Cloak of the Dunes, and a second ''naked'' Priest.
With those set, you need to look at what you have available to do damage.
1st obviuos choice is a Screaming Skull Catapult. Upgrade it, and practise range guessing a little, or learn to memorise initial enemy positions and movements, then calculate the distance in your head. Use magic for double shooting.
Second, youll need numbers. One unit of 19 skelies, with music. Prince goes here. Possibly a second unit of 20 too. The Ogres have quite high Str, so your armour will be worthless. Go with bows, purely because its cheaper, and also you may be able to do a little ranged damage.
Now for some high Strength. Give the Prince a Great Weapon, and get in 3 Ushabti (I always usually suggest 4, but at just 1K, 3 should be fine) If you can get 2 units of 3 then even better!
Scorps will be useless... Carrion however, take 3-5 of them. Go for a 1st turn charge on Leadbelchers, they can actually hold u quite well in there ive found. OR use them as a march blocking / rear charge unit.
Chariots... They arent actually that amazing here, but maybe useful for dealing with large Gnoblar units, so take 3 just incase if you can fit them in.
Finally, Hieratic Jar on the Hiero, just incase you ever need that Crucial spell. And ofcourse, the Collar of Shapesh on the Prince, this item is a must for good cheap defense.
Remember, you get 2 power dice in your magic phase just like every other army, use them to shut down any of the Ogre bound spells that are in play.
Well after a good read about our magic item selection, I have a few that I think will help.
Flail of Skulls: For obvious reasons, being able to drop 2 whole ogres a turn is quite attractive, its high point cost makes me a little weary though. He also has been known to throw a slave giant into his list, so this will work on everything in his army.
Enkhil's Kanopi: Also quite obvious why it would be useful against ogres, being able to ruin his buffs could really come in handy. Also good for drawing out dispel dice.
I don't currently own any Ushabti, and I plan on getting other parts of my force before buying them, would a Tomb Scorpion be decent against him. I know they are more effective against man sized models, but I could see it being a thorn in their side. last time he fielded, based off memory. There may have been more or less, but I'm a little fuzzy lol.
The catapult is great against other armies that have blocks, but is it still worth it on Ogres? I would think a casket against their semi low leader ship would be good. 3 wounds would also cause a panic. Plus the nerf to there casting I would think is nice.
Bruiser w/ great weapon
2 units of 3 iron guts
2 units of 3 bulls
With just one butcher, the Kanopi shouldnt be needed. Your 4 Dispel dice and 2 Power will take care of his spells nicely.
The Flail of Skulls leaves your Prince very undefended. Id still say go with the Collar and a GW. S7 consistantly too, bear in mind the flail will mean you are at base S5 in later combat rounds, its more of a Chariot weapon really.
SSC, remember it causes D6 wounds. Howvwer, acasket would be completely awesome here actually, it would do some real damage if it successfully cast at all.
How do you suggest I deal with the slave giant? I planned on firing it at the unit the Bruiser's unit, would it be better to fire on the slave giant? Here is my list that I might use.
While the staff of ravening has a weak strength, those hits mixed with the bowmen smiting could possibly wipe out a whole unit. Also if I got lucky, it could wreck the giant.
+ Great Weapon
+Cloak of Dunes +Hieratic Jar
Skeletal Warriors x19
Skeletal Warriors x10
Screaming Skull Catapult
+Skulls of the Foe
My friend plays Ogre Kingdoms and we've played 2 games so far using impromptu lists. I've won once and during the second game he conceded. I found that while it is truly tough to deal considerable damage to an Ogre Kingdoms army, its not in the short game but the long run that Tomb Kings achieve wins against Ogres. I've always found that a good balance between Ranged units and block units as well as a maxed out Characters slot put up a good fight if not almost always win.
I would say softening the few but tough ogre units using multiple archer lines and an SSC would be the first and most vital step, hopefully with well placed shots using your SSC and righteous smiting being cast successfully you'll cause 2 panic tests early in the game, Ogres don't have the poorest Ld but you can count that they'll do a lot of running in the long run which I find to be their weakness against Tomb Kings that I use to ultimately win against them.
By the time close combat comes around, try to get the charge on them forcing a panic check with your block units because those bull charge impact hits coupled with the possible 12 attacks forthcoming could wreck your block unit negating their real strength which I think (especially against ogres) is tarpitting them in a neverending close combat phase. Hopefully by this time the Ogre units are considerably weaker then they were initially. The strategy for blocks against Ogre units is not in outwounding them but to take advantage of undead resilience, with no worry about fleeing, and considering you have ample magic support to raise destroyed warriors your enemy will be forced to win every round of combat unless he miraculously passes every Panic Test thrown at him for losing against an outnumbering unit with static res.
Maybe it's just me, but when playing my friend I relied mostly on:
Softening enemy units to a manageable size utilizing range early in the game
Those fear tests and the advantages they grant like forcing him to roll 6's in combat or him stopping dead in his tracks giving me way for the charge or just running early in the game delaying his strategy
Tarpitting his army and destroying them through pursuit.
Ogre's are pretty fast as is their nature to get into CC as quick as possible, I have a very immobile and defensive list and its done fairly well against his guys.
My advice is probably very vague compared to others on this board who have a lot more experience and weight behind their advice but I'm still at the point where I'm learning about the Tomb Kings , their strengths and weaknesses. Sorry if this was long and drawn out haha but hope it helped in some way if not I'm sure you'll find a lot of great advice from others on the Tomb King thread!
Not at all aalmazan, that post was pretty good for a tactics roundup. Take heed Weaponmaker
As for dealing with the SlaveGiant, remember it is a large target, so when shooting at it, you will get ALL your shots (even if that unit of 20 is reformed into a 5x4 formation, all ranks fire)
With no save, your arrows should put a few wounds onto him. Meanwhile the SSC should be concentrating fire at the Ironguts if possible, otherwise just the bulls.
The Scorp youve included wont really be that effective at all (srrry forgot to write this in my last post)
He has 4A wth poison.... the rest is useless, no Flanking bonus, no KB. Looking at it that way, for the same points you can get 2 Scarab Swarms, with 10 poisoned attacks!
So either do that, or just fill out the second unit f archers up to 20, and concentrate them on the Giant too.
OR... drop the Chariots too and get in the 3 Ushabti i recommended. Magic charge with them at any ogre unit should see them die and run (possibly not the Tyrant and his unit so easily)
Thanks for all the advice guys!!
I just picked up some swarms, and Ushabti today. On Friday I'll let you know how the battle went.
Haha thanks phoenix and weaponmaker goodluck with your game hope to see a TK vs OK battlereport in the midst!!! Haha just kidding but goodluck again