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  1. #1
    ewd
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    Friendly/unfriendly/tournament army lists?

    I am very new to this game (in fact I am still building my 500pt army), and in doing research and such I noticed that people bring up "friendly", "unfriendly" and "tournament" army lists. How are any of these different?

    Sorry for such a beginner question (and there will most likely be more as a progress in learning the game ).


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  3. #2
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    When it comes to Tomb Kings, these 3 words have little meaning. So long as your army list is sensible, then TK have one of the strongest, most balanced army lists available. Unfriendly is hard to apply to TK really. Tournament and Friendly will just be there to let the reader know if the list is intended for tourney or Friendly play.

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    Honestly there are a few different ideas on what constitutes a Friendly/Unfriendly list much like the long raging war on what is cheese.

    Personally here is how I see each of the terms. A friendly list is a list intended to not be a cut throat list but a more relaxed list. A list for throwing down and having fun with win, lose or draw and that most opponents won't be grinding their teeth at seeing.

    Unfriendly lists are quite the opposite. Usually these tend to be lists meant to win, regardless of what your opponent may think of the army build. Often times this is the same as a tournament list but not always.

    Tournament lists are lists players tend to put up for critique before taking to battle in a torunament setting. Tournament lists generally look to be as hard as they can while still maintaining an all-comers capability.


    And a welcome to you as well our newly awakened brother. May Ptra shine upon you.
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    ewd
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    Thanks for the replies! I guess I would qualify as a "friendly" army (thats the plan at least!). Hopefully in the next few days I will put up what I am thinking will be stepping stone army...i.e. 500pts, 1000, 1500, 2k, 2.5k etc and will be pestering for critiques on build and hopefully what my tactics will likely be. The reason behind trying to understand the friendly/tournament/unfriendly is that I am purely in this for fun (bt isn't that what everyone says at the beginning ).

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    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by ewd View Post
    bt isn't that what everyone says at the beginning
    Indeed, and some of us even manage to stick at it I look forward to seeing your lists, and will be happy to comment on them when you post.

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    Member LOTHAR-HEX's Avatar
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    In order to be competitive most Tomb king armies are usually quite balanced and friendly. Unfortunately in any list there is the potential to take min-max selections. This usually involves maxing out on characters (essential for TK's!), special and rare choices whilst minimising core choices. This makes sense tactically for us because our special and rare units are sooooo good, this can be further exploited by taking a tomb king and making 'special' chariots core therefore bypassing the need for rank and file core infantry altogether!

    This type of min-max army selection goes against the fluff in most cases however and does not represent a realistic force in the game world.

    Friendly armies are usually balanced armies that are not optimised or overpowered in any one phase and that represent a mix of the main units present in the list. For example a High Elf army that contains a mix of Spearelves, Archers, Bolt throwers and cavalry would represent such a force. This army could easily be considered representative of a normal high elf force.

    Friendly armies are designed to create fun games and are believable in the game background.

    Unfriendly armies are usually min-max lists or forces that can be tailored against a specific opponent, these lists attempt to win the game in one or possibly two phases of the game. A skaven gunline that contains minimum size clanrat units accompanied by weapons teams warlock engineers and jezzails is capable of pounding most enemies of the board in two turns of magic and shooting and is highly unfriendly. Unfriendly lists are not much fun to play against to be honest. However, extreme unfriendly armies often have big weaknesses against certain armies, the above skaven list suffers mightily against our own SSC shooting or other combat horde armies O&G for example.

    Unfriendly armies are designed to massacre the opponent with overpowered phases/uber units, they often have very tenuous claims to be following the fluff i.e. Skryre Armies*, VC uber raisers(but they are Necrarchs...) but this is often used as a justification for their use! These lists are either unbeatable or easily beaten depending on the opposition and thus don't make for exciting games in either case.

    *NB(It seems incredible to me how uneven skaven society is, when every army you bloody see above ground is Clan F****** Skryre they must have a giant factory spanning the entire old world churning out all these ridiculous weapons and items... i wonder how many Storm Daemons actually exist in the old world?)

    Tournament (Highly Competitive) armies can fall into the latter category above, but usually they are slightly more balanced because of the unknown nature of the opposition. They are often designed primarily to not give away easy victory points, as well as earning them. Its often difficult to massacre enemy tournament lists due to a lack of bonus vps, from sources such as banners, easy to kill characters etc. Units tend to be taken that work well in conjunction with one another but few uber units are seen because they are too much of a points liability, good tournament lists take advantage of the best cost/benefit ratio units they possess, our own Scorpions are a steal at their points cost/for the abilities they have. The same is true of regular Dwarf Warriors who are incredibly cheap when you consider their survivability. There are only a limited number of good tournament armies per list and they often contain very similar unit/item combinations.

    Tournament armies are very carefully constructed to play to the lists strengths and to minimise its weaknesses. They are very rules/points cost conscious lists usually, rather than adhering ridgidly to background fluff. They can be frustrating to play with a friendly force but are an even match for other tournament armies constructed using the same criteria. A tournament list will usually give its player a fair to good chance of beating an unfriendly one.

    In conclusion, friendly lists are cosmetic, i.e. they look right and are fun to play, unfriendly lists are overpowered and monotone, they only play to 1 or 2 extremes and Tournament lists are mathematically focused on the win/loss ratio of points. These are broad army descriptions and do not apply to all armies but it is a good overview i think.

    P.S Kudos for those Skaven Generals who play balanced lists...

    HEX
    Last edited by LOTHAR-HEX; April 9th, 2008 at 16:47.
    How do you expect to defeat me when I am forever and you are just a man...

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