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Hey im new to warhammer and im trying to decide between tomb kings, skaven, and lizardmen to make an army. i am really a complete novice at this but i just want an idea about the tomb kings and if possible the other armies- just the play style difficulty strengths and weaknesses- and then also what you would suggest to get to start whatever army i choose. i am thinking about getting the batallion for whichever one i choose but not sure yet. thanks for helping me!!
of the 3 i have to say TK are the hardest army to play well. this army is very reliant on magic, the units are small/week and the game is basicly won/lost in the movement/magic phase
these are a horde army, can be played decently in any roll you choose, (magic, CC, shooting) are very fast (move of 5 march of 10 ) and very entertaining to play.
of the 3 i say Lizardmen are the easist army to start with and i would sugest you start here. the LM are very ballanced, can do exceptionaly well in all play styles, you have almost all units types (monsters, skirmishers, calvary, foot slogers, shooters, magic) and are great for starting out with.
Tk are dificult b/c you a) need to have 2 heroes min. (prince/king and a High LP/LP) no model in the unit can march. you have very low WS (usualy needing 4/5/6 to hit) very week models (best "defense" in a unit only has a 4+ armor save and T4). if the Herophant (HLP/LP) dies your army crumbles. on the plus side, you have great mobility (chariots that can move 24" in 1 turn, many calv options) some of the best units (Tomb scorpions) Deadly Warmachines (SSC panic with 1 wound and can shoot 2x a turn (with magical help)) and fear/unbreakable all across the army.
i play TK, Skaven and dwarfs. i love all 3, but if i were to sugest an army to somone who has never played(assuming) i would sugest Dwarf/empire/LM to them (of the 3 you said LM were a thought of yours)
also i personaly think LM units/models are damn cool and fun to paint.
Dwarfs are very flashy and if done well look great
Skaven... there are ALOT to paint.
hope this helps you some.
Painting: 20 quarrelers
Well I'm going to disagree on some of the advice Hondor gave you. I'm not going to advise that you don't start with Tomb Kings. A lot of people claim that "X" army isn't a beginner's army and thus you shouldn't start with it, then a few years later a few hundred dollars of models later, you get around to "X" army.
Personally I would say to look at the models from all 3 armies and pick out which ones you like the best. That should be your main criteria for orginally picking an army in my opinion. The army that you like the look of the best will be, more times than not, the army that you want to paint the most, and the army that you will enjoy playing with time over time. You can learn to play any army effectively, the learning curve for each maybe different however. So don't get discouraged if you take your lumps with an army early on.
Very synergistic army in my opinion. They really on you using your entire army together to crush your opponent. Of all the armies in Warhammer, Tomb Kings rely more on the magic phase than anyone, even Vampire Counts (who can get away with running a magic light, combat heavy army). Our magic is very supportive and quite relentless if used correctly. You can give units extra movement, extra attacks, or heal wounds/models as long as the unit is alive. Our combat characters are tougher than most armies (more wounds) and we have good casters (I'd say our wizards are around level 1.5 and 3.5 respectively). Units of Chariots, Tomb Scorpions, and Screaming Skull Catapults are the main things this army is known for. Being Undead, we are unbreakable and all our units cause fear, so we're very reliable in that sense as well.
Weaknesses of the Tomb Kings are that statswise, compared to other armies we are a bit sub-par, being Undead (double edged sword). We can't march unless we do it via Urgency in the magic phase, and in general, if our magic gets shut down, we're in trouble.
Of the 3 you are looking into I know the least about Skaven, so I appologize in advance. Skaven are one of the horde armies in WHFB. A typical 2000 point Skaven army can have upwards or 200-300 models in it (that's a lot of rats). Skaven are able to do well in all 3 phases of the game, but excel the most in my opinion in shooting and magic. The do a SAD (shooting army of doom) approach very well. Their magic is also quite strong.
The downsides to Skaven are that their magic and shooting can also backfire on you if you push it too hard at times. Warpstone is very fickle like that. Also Skaven have poor leadership, especially when not in large groups (they get bonus Ld. for each rank in the unit). So fear and terror can play havoc with Skaven.
Lizardmen are one of the best all around books in my opinion. They have 2 of the best core units out there (Saurus and Skinks, espeically skinks). Cold blooded as an army wide rule makes any leadership tests you have to take that much easier to pass. They have one of the best spell casters in the game with the Slann. The frog can easily single handedly dominate a magic phase.
Only downsides of Lizardmen that I can think of are that on average they have poor WS and I compared to other troops for their price. Getting the charge with some of their CC units can be essential against other 'elite' infantry troops. Also, outside of magic, Lizardmen lack long ranged shooting (20"+).
Something you may fnd interesting is that all three armies are due for a book out in the next year or so (Lizzies first iirc, then Skaven and TKs).
The Lizardmen are that army with everything overpriced imo, so they need that new book.
Though I can tell that you are looking very seriously at TKs, I have little to no experience with them (as Phoenix will vouch for), and Skaven I'm not much better on either. If you dislike the TK models (and who can blame you), then you could simply get some of the VCs models and use them- like the Skeletons, the Black Knights too would make good Heavy Cavalry- and I'm sure no-one will mind.
Hope this helps,
I think that many people have missed one of the shining virtues of playing TK as a beginner. Namely, that they are the most reliable army you can play.
Everything is ItP, unbreakable, and can be brought back (via incantation) if they get killed. The TK magic never fails, so the enemy always has to have the scrolls and DD to stop it and can't hope for casting failure.
Yes TK rely on their magic, but with incantations that are so benefitial and will never fail is that so bad? Didnt do so well in your shooting phase? Give it another go in the magic phase, and the same with combat.
I think that in the end each army is strong and viable for new players in its own way (though it is true that TK have a harder time in small point games). So I have to agree with Spector, choose the army whose fluff and models appeal to you the most. I for one love the egyptian theme and models, and the fluff is excellent. Thats why I am starting them up instead of Vampire counts.
Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; July 13th, 2008 at 10:10.
"I am the architect of fate!"
Well, youve had a lot of good replies already so i need not repeat, but just incase you missed it, thought id like this for you.
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...omb-kings.html (A Beginners Guide to Tomb Kings)
Useful (hopefully lol) if you decide to join the ranks
I have 0 experience or knowledge about Lizardmen, so I can't help there. However, I do have some knowledge and experience with Skaven (I've never owned Skaven, but I used to play against them quite often). I can say that it will cost you more out of pocket as you need to buy more models, and it will be TONS of painting. If you're like me, and you only like to field painted miniatures, then it could be awhile before you play your first game.
Just keep in mind.. this is a game. It is here for your enjoyment. Your opinion is what should matter most to you. If you love the egyptian style, or you like the models, or the fluff, or whatever it may be, let that guide you on your choice.
Try this out.. if you could narrow it down to 2 armies.. which one would you drop as a choice? I recommend spending some time on the Skaven and Lizardmen forums and ask specifically about their armies and don't even mention the other armies that might be a choice for you. Get your opinions from the community, and then compare them yourself. Or you could even come back here, and drop the ideas you've collected and let us sort out any questions you may have.
I hope this helps! Good luck in your choice, whatever it may be.
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CHOOSE YOUR FAVOURITE MODELS. I know you won't love every model but you should like all and love somesome people like the lizardman skink so they make an entirly skink army Its not very good but they enjoy playing it ( southlands player leave me alone I mean warchief general then all skinks no kroxigars) All armys have winning capabilities don't go with the begginer army just because its a beginer army. Take yourr time it took me 2 weeks to finally settle on high elves and 3 weeks for lizardmen. don't ask for other peoples advice on choosing your army because your not other people. JUST HAVE FUN
Liking the models is definitly important, but unless your only in this hobby to paint, then you need to look beyond the models and also take into account different playstyles and the fluff.
You might like dwarf models, but if you dont like a purely defensive army then you wont enjoy playing the game.
"I am the architect of fate!"