3 questions about fighting VC. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    3 questions about fighting VC.

    My room-mate has recently gotten me interested in Warhammer and we've been playing some 500 pt games against each other. He's been wiping the floor with me on a fairly regular basis, but he's got more experience than I do, he plays VC, and form what I hear 500 pts is NOT a good level of play for Tomb Kings.

    In any case, we both just ordered a bunch of stuff so can play a 1.5k game against each other, and I have some specific questions about playing aginst VC.

    1) How can I make sure my magic goes through? My room-mate is VERY aware of how strong TK magic is, and because he plays VC he's got the dispel dice necessary to really rough up my magic phase. I'm definitely going to be taking 2 Liche Priests, and I've got a unit of carrion to try and pick off his casters early in the game. I'm considering taking the casket, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Are there any other methods (i.e. magic items, tactics, etc.) that would help?

    2) Counter-Counter-Tactics. I've read some of the more common tactics for dealing with VC, such as using my tomb scorpion to suicide against his characters, using my bone giant's unrelenting attack against his skellies, taking advantage of the SSC, and all that jazzl. But my room-mate is a sharp guy, and he probably looked up those tactics before I did and already has counter-measures in mind. Are there any tricks to making sure the "tried and true" TK tactics work even though he's expecting them?

    3) How can I keep my Heriophant safe?
    I know the standard setup is to give the Heirophant the CoD and the Jar, which defnitely works. But my opponent will be expecting that, and vampires have so many special powers available to them (such as... FLIGHT) that I'm not sure if cloaking and occasionally bunkering in an another unit will be enough. What else can I do?


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  3. #2
    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    For a newbie, your sure have done your homework. You seem to know a lot about the game and TK, and have pretty much answered your own questions.

    As a rule, TK will struggle a lot against the new VC. Their magic is better and now more relentless since they can cast the same necromancy spells multiple times. The only slight advantage you have is they may miscast while you won't, not really worth relying on though. And you are correct that TK are bad in low point games. In fact, I would go as far as to say they are not so good in games that aren't multiples of 1000 points. At 1500 points, your opponents will have more points for antimagic and most 1500 point armies have a bit of magic resistance, at 1k on the other hand a lot of armies just don't take a mage due to the cost and hope to get through on 2 DD. At 2k you should see a big improvement in your army.

    The casket is very good, but also pricey. In games less than 2k I would probably go for a SSC rather than a casket, and take a casket at 2k. It will pretty much never go off, but its job is to eat at least 2 DD every turn which is a big help, and the -1 to cast is nice. As a bonus if it ever does go off, VC have quite poor leadership so you should kill a lot.

    Really, you can't worry about his counter tactics at this stage. Everyone deals with things differently, it is hard to predict what he will do. And since he cannot ever choose to flee, in many cases there is not a lot he can do to stop you suiciding into the necromancers with scorps short of trying to kill them first.

    The only TK incantation that needs LoS is the magic missile, which you will very rarely use. Put your heirophant either in woods or move him up behind your blocks, even with fly they will need to get LoS to him before charging and on the turn they move back there you can jump in a unit or move next to a unit. Use your units to shield him. I would consider the 4+ ward save rather than CoD as well. It depends on what you want to do with him. Mine is usually fine moving at the same pace as my skellie blocks and hiding in them if needed, so a ward save is great if he gets exposed somehow. But lots of people really like the ability to fly and get away quickly, so decide what you want to do.

    Finally, don't forget ushabti. They are great for mowing through undead.
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  4. #3
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    In any case, we both just ordered a bunch of stuff so can play a 1.5k game against each other, and I have some specific questions about playing aginst VC.
    Cool

    1) How can I make sure my magic goes through? Are there any other methods (i.e. magic items, tactics, etc.) that would help?
    Mount one Priest and add the Staff of Rav, or have him sit as a casket (A god option as the other decent Rare, the Catapult, id vastly reduced in its effectiveness against VC)
    Look into the BotUndying Legion on a Chariot unit or Heavy Cav perhaps.

    2) Counter-Counter-Tactics. Are there any tricks to making sure the "tried and true" TK tactics work even though he's expecting them?
    Be relentless, with magic and tactics. Use Ushabti over a BG.

    3) How can I keep my Heriophant safe?
    What else can I do?
    Use terrain to your advantage (remember, your spells don't need Line of Sight, except the Magic Missile). Possibly hide in a nice big skellie unit. Oh, and be lucky

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    Thanks for the advice, it's given me quite a bit to think about. I don't have the pieces to do some of it yet (i.e. Ushabti) but I've made some edits to my army list that I think will be helpful.

    Another quick question:

    Would Neferra's Plaques+Cloak of the Dunes be a good combination for my Herophant?

    The Plaques seem more useful than the Jar to me, because in terms of overcoming my opponent's dispelling powers they achieve the same thing as the jar, but can be used multiple times. It seems like being able to re-roll my low casts (for instance, anything below a 4) EVERY turn would be more useful than making him waste his dispel dice and then recasting on a SINGLE turn. Is that an accurate take on the situation, or have I missed something important?

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    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    The Plaques are good yea, but the Hjar is generally viewed as better for a LP hiero i think. However, with 2 spells, the Plaques really come into their own when used on a High priest Hiero. Ofcourse, if you like the Plaques, use them anyway Theyre not a bad item by any means. Playtesting isn the best thing for deciding generally.

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    Tomb King medic_4077's Avatar
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    Things that help against VC magic:
    1) having a Liche High Priest, 3d6 twice is pretty unstoppable especially teamed with:
    2) having a Casket, the minus 1 to his casting rolls alone is almost worth the points but he'll also keep 2 or 3 dice back to dispel it because it can do real damage to his low Ld units
    3) Hieratic Jar
    4) having 2 more priests in addition to your Heirophant
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    Though I haven't tried a chariot list against VCs, I have see them rip apart a VC list.

    One thing I like to do though against VCs is send scorps after his hero units..try to forget the grave guard unit if u can until u are sure you're main unit can get in with a flank from another. Same stat line, but the Grave Guard have heavy armour instead..at the same point cost..someone explain that to me!!

    DoE will wreck tomb guard

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