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Over the last couple of days I played warhammer with my friends... and lost 3 games in a row. I found myself being repeatedly bashed before I could even make a move. I never got to go first in the three games we played so I already was at a disadvantage seeing as how both of my friends were playing shooting-heavy lizardmen and empire armies. It also got very depressing because I found that no matter where I put my hierophant, my opponents would always use the comet of cassandora! If I had my liche priest in the air, he would be shot to sh** and if I left him on the ground behind a wall, he would be blown up! Another thing that bothered me is that every time I tried to cast a spell, my opponents would have tons of dispel dice ready before I even rolled, so out of about 6 spells cast in a 2000 point battle, I would only actually get 2 spells to cast... and then after all that, my SSC would miss it's target. The only way I got any victory points at all was by scaring my opponents and letting them run away peeing their pants, but besides that I had nothing on my opponents. They could field more wizards, use more powerful spells, and use more dice! Another thing that got me annoyed was that empire outriders could shoot every single time I charged them! First they would shoot 24 shots at my ushabti, then they would shoot the ushabti as they charged them, and then they would finish my last model in combat, it was ridiculous! Stegadons are almost invulnerable to any attacks I make and I get swarmed by skinks! I try to revive my soldiers but they have too many dispel dice! Also, I forgot to mention this before but in our huge 4000 point battle, Queen Khalida got burned to a crisp before it was even my turn! There went 500 victory points! And in that same turn they demolished 2 SSC's.
As you can see my battles weren't terribly great. My only victory points earned were from underground scorpions, run away troops and the occasional skink or two. So, there goes another 3 lost battles to my win to lose ratio so far
Wins-1(against a noob)
Now mind you half of those losses were from a couple years ago when I didn't know what I was doing but over the past few months where I have actually known what I have been doing it has still been
This isn't very encouraging. Especially since it doesn't look like I'll be facing any 6th edition armies any time soon. All of my battles have been against Dark Elves, Empire, Chaos, Lizardmen, and soon Vampire counts. My guesses with the SSC are good but my dice rolls for the SSC were bad this weekend, I used the right incantations but my opponents had more dispel dice. I tried to use more ranged units but they were outnumbered and outmatched in all respects! It became impossible to keep my liche priest safe. I don't know what I did wrong but I lost miserably! Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait a year or so for our army to be updated... sigh
It sounds like you need to make sure of the rules and your strategies. From your description, it seemed like there were a lot of dispel dice. How exactly many? Usually an army gets two standard, and then one for each level 1-2 wizard and 2 for levels 3-4. I would read the rules, especially on magic and make sure you have everything straight, so you know what you are doing (very important) and you can also know what your opponent is doing (just as important.) Rules Rules Rules. Even go so far as borrowing your friends army books so you can know what there army is doing. If something doesnt sound right, it takes a minute or two to look it up in a book, That way you can both know you are playing correctly. Knowledge is power, and it will help you becoome a much better player and opponent.
Also, you should never have a special character running around on there own. Stick them in a block of troops. They are much safer. They can't be sniped, and they get the "look out sir" rule.
And I'm not really sure what you mean by shooting-heavy lizardmen. With our new book the only things we have that are longer range than 12 inches are the giant bow and salamanders. There is no way a LM army should be killing you before can even do anything.
Even with a Slann slinging spells that still isn't much in the way of ranged damage on turn 1-2.
The only thing you can do about your SSC is get spot on with your range guessing. Other than that you can't really do anything about poor scatter rolls. Also, its unfortunate, but TK's have a hard time dealing with monstrous creatures. Stegadons will give you problems, and since they are just about the best improvement to the LM list you will be seeing lots of them.
I agree alot with MC Bone Giant, make sure everyone is following the rules properly. Make sure everyone is using the proper amount of power and dispel dice and that everyone is rolling for their spells randomly as they should. That many Comets being chosen as spells, much less being cast that much, is a bit fishy.
Another thing would be to post the lists you usually use, that might give a bit of a clue as to why your having some of the troubles you are.
"I am the architect of fate!"
I have more problems with the empire's shooting than the lizardmen but in terms of shooting for the lizardmen he had his skinks move backwards towards us so he can fire at us and then run away (because skirmishing skinks can shoot all around) Also, he usually has a few skink priests (usually level 2) on the table in small battles of 1000-1500 points so he has plenty of dispel dice. And as for the amount of comets, they have a house rule where you get to pick your own spells (I only realized they were doing this until later) I find that they have a lot of house rules that are great for the person that goes first for example; in one house rule you can shoot with 2 ranks when you are not on a hill and 3 ranks when on a hill. But even without the house rules, I still get obliterated by gunfire from the empire and the magic of the lizardmen.
Last edited by AltheAlchemist; April 12th, 2009 at 03:50. Reason: forgot to put in more information
even with two skink priests he should only have 4 dispel dice, unless one of them is a level 2 on an engine of the gods. Then he would have 5.
As for the Skinks, as skirmisher they can move 360 degrees as well, so your opponent doesn't have to be moving them at you backwards
It seems to me that its these "House Rules" that are doing you in.
"I am the architect of fate!"
Empire's anti-magic isnt that great, with TP LP LP you should still be able to overcome it at 1500, especially with a couple of bound spells. Can we get a rough idea on your list, and theirs?
It's hard to say what he had in his empire army besides 3 level 1 wizards and a unit of 24 outriders. He just began to play empire so he used a lot of other models to represent his army. But if I remember correctly, my list had the following
1 tomb prince-CoS, S, LA
1 liche priest (H) GA, CotD
1 liche priest-steed
20 Tomb Guard-Standard bearer, musician, banner of undying legion
2x 20 bowmen w/ musician
and that was it
So far I have found that ushabti just don't work well with me. They just got fired at constantly by his outriders. Also because it was his first time playing empire (however he has a lot of experience with Chaos) he also forgot to take -1 when shooting with 2x multiple shots. Still I got beat up pretty bad, but better attention to rules may have helped. (however we had to set up this battle in a rush so next time we will spend more time looking over rules)
Woah, Ushabti and Bowmen in 1500...
Ushabti die fast to firepower, and TG are expensive given how slow they are on the offence.
Id suggest dropping them for another Scorp and maybe a third, or Chariots or some Carrion. Get yourself some speed.
Add the HJar to your Hiero, and the SoRav to the other LP. BotUL on a Chariot Unit (if you have one, probably a good idea actually - get some speed and fast hitting power in)
Max out you magic that way should get you 7 effective Power Dice per turn atleast, meaning 1 bound and 2 incants should go off per turn, roughly, against 5 Ddice.
Thanks for the advice! I do have a unit of chariots but I couldn't find a way to fit them in evenly into the army. Also I am going to buy a new box of chariots as soon as I can (right after I get 2 more carrion models) I had no clue what I was doing for a 1500 point list because I only had a 1000 point list and a 2000 point list. Also I like the idea of maxing out my magical power! I was trying to do that by adding in a banner of the undying legion but I probably did need more magic when I think about it. Thanks once again!
A couple of suggestions to deal with outriders. Since you can shoot from 2 ranks, deploy your bowmen 10 wide and 2 deep in each unit and try to fire off 40 shots in the magic and another 40 in the shooting phase at shoot up the outriders. They have basically no save and will easily panic. If they panic on top of turn 1, there's a good chance they're off the board before they can do anything. Another easy way to off them if to charge them in the magic phase from close range. I personally use chariots or scorpions. Don't declare a charge if you are more than half your charge distance away. Instead, move up within half that distance, and then pop off a movement spell, taking away their option of stand and shoot.
Now, as it's been stated in other threads, TK are at a low point right now. With the newer armies being super powerful and alot are immune to pysch, we are fairly weak at the moment. Now, I won't go as far to say that you can't win with them, you certainly can. I've just found that I enjoy the games alot more when I dont' go in assuming I'm going to win. I still feel like I can beat the player, but now, there are times when I just can't beat the army. Hopefully the upcoming rulebook will change that.