Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Alright, pharohs and priests!
In my various forum travels, whenever I see/read any discourse about my beloved Casket it is almost entirely in a defensive context. Obviously, conventional wisdom indicates that this treasure is best used as a defensive mechanism in one way or another given its stationary nature.
It probably should go without saying that this causes me quite a bit of distress as I tend to prefer/run more proactive lists. However, I am smitten by this particular model and its myriad of functions. So...this lead me to thinking on how to best use the Casket to suit my playstyle. Basically, I'm looking for the thoughts, ideas and observations of the more knowledgeable here on such matters (and there appear to be many of you with an abundance of knowledge, tricks and tactics different from my own...which is very good).
I recall reading somewhere about someone fielding a Casket square it the middle of their battle line. While interesting, I'm leery of this somewhat (but I may eventually try it vs. Lizardmen in the near future). Most of my opponents run shooty/magicky lists and I'm afraid of my associated Liche Priest being blown to bits by magic and/or shooting since we have a hard time generating magical defense (although I bet the Blue Khepra and/or Golden Ankhra would come in handy here) along with possibly the Collar of Shapesh.
Additionally, what are people's feelings about potentially having a Priest abandon a Casket if most/all units are engaged in close combat or the Priest is in imminent danger that he can't realistically overcome in one turn? I can't think of too many scenarios that would cause me to just leave my Casket to crumble into dust, but by the same token would I really keep him there if there's nothing for him to affect with his Incantations and all enemy units are either out of LoS or engaged in CC already?
Thanks in advance for reading my ramblings (I know I'm long winded) and for your contributions to this thread.
PS...I'm sure you Europeans know who Tortured Soul is...if you don't, they own. Check them out!
Well, my dear Casket Priest I'll share my knowledge with you.
Where to place the Casket:
I would in most cases say "On a hill! Ofc, where enemies can see it!", but not in every scenario. You'll face opponents without a hill on your side very often, and when you got a hill, it isn't guaranteed that the hill is a good place to put the Casket.
However, I worked on diagrams and pic examples as everything screwed up... One hour wasted on a laggy computer! I should have made pics to these notes, but I guess I'll have to do my best to write the whole damn thing all over again
A big factor when you deploy the Casket is terrain. Forests, Watery features, Buildings etc... As a TK Player, you need to analyze the battlefield even before the deployment have started. Try to figure out where your opponent will put his main forces, think three turns ahead so you know that each and everyone of your Incantations will have a meaning in the next few turns - whatever happens.
The Casket is stationary, and so, must be placed on a wise spot. I recommend placing the Casket as the very last piece to the battlefield. Remember that ICFB Units are deployed even after Scouts, so if you can predict your opponents movements with these too, you will have an advantage.
To take into consideration when talking terrain and where to place the Casket is the Terror. Terror is one of the most effective ways to play a card against the Ld of an enemy. Place the Casket so that it will cause Terror on tactical spots if it is possible (such as a path between two forests or the likes).
Place the Casket on a hill?
- Entire Armies can now see the Casket. The Light of Death will have a greater effect.
- Entire Armies can now see the Casket. It will attract more shooting, and War Machines will be able to aim directly at the Casket itself.
By placing the Casket on a hill, you will be granted a powerful effect on LoD, but decrease the survivability of the Priest. If you place it on low ground, you have to think more deep of how every Unit shall move so that you trick your opponents most powerful units to look directly at the Casket. I like to put it close to a forest if I can.
As I wrote: "I like to place it close to a forest", but it can really be any terrain piece that blocks line of sight and is hard to charge through (Impassable terrain that you can see through, like dangerous swamps - even better). Just make sure that one of the flanks is secured this way.
The other flank can be a bit of problem. I usually stick my SSC to fit as a flank protectorate for the Casket. Why? It can easily be resummoned... If the Machine is not destroyed, simply resummon the Crew. In addition, the SSC will be granted the protection of Terror!
The Rear of the Casket can easily be protected by a Tomb Scorpion on guarding duty. I would not recommend this option when facing many Armies, but against some of them, it is a very effective way to protect the Casket.
Now, how to protect the front, but still make it visible? Do we have any "small" Units? Hell, yeah! We got Tomb Swarms! Perfect when it comes to Casket protection, if it is needed from the very front. Usually, it is NOT needed... But times will come when it is.
Make sure to line up two big regs of Bowmen to add to the power of the Casket. Chariots and TGs are good options for a more "agressive" Army, but I would still recommend Skellie Bowmen before the Warriors with LA/HW/S. If an enemy Unit tries to get a hold of the Casket from the Front, it will be flanked by TWO Units (reformed into blocks so they'll benefit from ranks) and most likely lose combat. I cannot guarantee anything, since luck is a big part of the game.
Variations of the protection of a Casket can be:
- to place the Casket and the SSC at different places. This will split the "ambushers/scouts" into two groups, each a little easier to take out than the full scouting/ambushing/tunneling team. If they focus one of the two options available, they will not be able to take out the other one, which will be a triumph for you...
- Make use of Carrions. I don't like this one, since I'm commanding the Carrion-King Azeh Tekhed most of the times, and he wants the Carrions to do their job over at the other side of the battlefield.
- Use Chariots with Mirage Standard to deflect and absorb enemy shooting. They will eventually die, but it is a good way to ensure that the Scorp will get some War Machines before the Casket Priest got himself killed.
When we're talking protection, we also consider Magic Items. The Items that I would recommend to a Casket Priest is either Enkhil's Kanopi and a Scroll or two Scrolls. By adding a save or a Magic Resistance, you'll pay for the situation of BEING in danger... Never get there!
Magical protection is also naturally granted by the Casket. Do never forget the -1 to cast for enemy Wizards!
Abandon a Casket:
Have you put the Casket on the wrong place? Are you risking the life of your Priest by staying with the Casket? Have you failed in the factor to predict the enemy's movements? These are such things that may happen, and the only thing to learn how to prevent these mistakes is to gather experience. I cannot tell you what to do in each and everyone of these situations, since different aspects of a game can turn the tides of a battle, or even a war.
In very critical situations, I would say YES! It could be that a Block of Miners have appeared behind the Casket and you cannot hold them up with anything OR two fully boosted Black Coaches, one on each flank... Yeah, it could be anything that makes you tremble in fear.
In other situations, I would say NO! If there is a chance that the Priest may win, or the Terror make the charging Unit flee etc., I would never abandon the Casket! We'll lose the protection by doing do (and points for the Casket itself).
I will try to answer any further questions... Hope This Helps!
//Nagash, the Corrupt
Last edited by Nagash; August 28th, 2009 at 21:31.
Rarely do you ever have to worry about
or shooting at a casket
The randomization gives huge protection (once had 20 Skinks double shoot it the priest took 1 wound)
I always give the priest the ank.
i've often played games were even to the last turn, there is things not in combat, or in line of sight of the casket (my friend once let it go, not thinking anything was seeing it...he had a treeman ancient...who could see it, and got instantly KO'ed by it)
I've never had the priest leave the casket
But I have only once had something come up to kill him (a Lord on a dragon)
SO i do not know much about abandoning the casket
Well, as for the CoS being a defensive item... that is probably drawn from the fact it can't run around the battlefield all nimbly pimbly shooting out souls everywhere. The traditional castle list is easy to do with TK. Stack CoS and SSC on a hill with bow skellies and start shooting. But basically what the CoS is is an anchor. In the castle list everything stays centered around it. But in a go out and attack list, the CoS is still an anchor. It sits there and spits souls/sucks DD/makes your opponent nervous while the rest of your forces roll across (with your chariots sweeeping). I'm sure Nagash we'll go into greater depth about the casket, so I won't steal his thunder (and I have to get back to work. heh)
Aside from the fact that it cannot move, the casket can also be seen as a defensive weapon due to the fact that it's effect is often dispelled. It acts more as a sink for dispel dice than anything else, and it's part of why I field it so much. Even though it might not get a single kill in some battles, my opponent is saving 3-4 of his dice to stop it's effect allowing me to use my other incantations to heal and move units around.
If it does go off, it's effects can be devastating. Yeah, there is a chance you'll roll a 3 and even zombies will laugh at you, but there are other times when you will get 12s or even the mighty 14 and watch the toughest units and monsters crumple up and die on the battlefield
Thanks for the replies, folks.
I suppose I should clarify some. I know how to use the Casket traditionally and I do to decent effect, despite the Light of Death never having successfully gone off once in any of the games I've played...hehe.
I am trying to get ideas to attempt to use the Casket more offensively, if possible. If that's not possible within the context of my abilities then I'll revert to old form and be happy knowing that against most normal lists I face, that my characters can cast their Incantations with nigh impunity. I just like "outside-the-box" thinking and if there's a way to make more proactive use of the treasure than defensive, I aim to find it (especially in my Twin Prince list).
Thanks again and keep the discourse coming!
The best way to use the Casket in an agressive way is to follow the guidelines I wrote above. The way you should think is different though...
Do not look at the Casket and say "defensive" until you've tried this one (I have tried it, and it will make your Casket to an offensive weapon). Place the Casket at a smart point on the field (factors can be read about in my post above). When you march forward with your troops, leave gaps that the enemy can see through! Use Icon of Rakaph!
Place your regiments so that the enemy will move within your "controlled spots" or face the Light of Death... Still walk forward!
This is a very effective way of using the Casket, but it takes some time to master it You MUST predict EACH AND EVERY available enemy movement, or your Casket is much like wasted points...
Was this the kind of idea you're searching for, dear Apprentice?
//Nagash, High Priest of LO
Hrm...I think that's exactly what I am looking for and hadn't even considered it until I re-read your post and things started to "click."
Thanks again everyone for your replies and suggestions!
I agree with Nagash. If you have a hill, no problem - just let the cascet get to work while your troops advance. If there is no hill just use it as you would a cannon, leave "fireing lanes" between your units.
I myself use the casket in a offensive list and it has yet to fail me.
The offensive list (Tomb Kings 2000 pts friendly)
"The ones with lingon och skit" - Andusciassus