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Morning guys, having had the TK book for about 4 months now, i'm still building my army list up for a tourny in jan. Now i have a dilemma, i really like the casket, and would love to include it in my 2k army when i get there (the tourny is 1500) but, for the very first time today, i noticed the casket is usable in 1500. Because it was on the lord page, i presumed it was for lords only, kind of like the anvil for dwarves (who i've come from). So i put it to you guys, in 1500pts
Casket / Screaming Skull Catapult / Bone Giant????
Btw, i'm planning on taking an advancing army, if you think the SSC or Casket can hold back as support i'm all for it, but at the moment i'm leaning towards the Bone Giant because
A- I love the model
B- It will advance offering support
C- I think it will attract attention above the level of it's efficiency if i play up the unstoppable assault a bit i think.
Much as I adore the casket you will need to have a SSC in a tourney environment if you want to give a good account of yourself.
There are a few reasons for this but essentially every army you face in a tourney will have one or two 'problem units' (these are usually the big stuff like treeman ancients, hydras, steam tanks etc) that you will need an SSC to deal with effectively. Without at least one SSC these things will make life miserable for you.
The casket is a close second due to its effect on the magic phases, but if you only have one rare slot then the SSC is 'required' and the casket is 'would be nice'.
Bone giants are probably the best looking unit in the TK book and they are perhaps the most fun unit we have. You can't beat old boney when it comes to the cool factor. Trouble is, they're just not very good. Some people really do let their hearts rule their heads on this one IMHO but the 'Bone giant gambit' you hinted at under 'C' (letting your opponent waste the scary looking BG while your other stuff advances unmolested) might actually pay off against an opponent who is unfamiliar with TKs.
Ultimately I suspect your choice will be dictated by your reasons for playing in the tournament. If you just want to play against some different armies/opponents and have a laugh then the BG is not such a bad choice, but If you're looking to be competitive in any way then you really will need an SSC IMHO.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...
well the last 2 times i went to this tournament, i came 2nd last and 5th last out of 64 so my sights aren't exactly set towards the top few tables, i just want to have some good fun, i personally find (sorry if this offends anyone here) that it is a lot more fun down at the bottom tables where things aren't taken as seriously. Guess, i'll have to do some play testing with all 3. having come from a WoC infantry khorne horde the BG probably fits my playstyle better, however i've never used magic before really, so it;s all new. Will a SSC sitting at the back be ok as i advance, or will i need to leave something back with it as cover?
Thanks for the reply, i'm learning new things everyday, this forum is being really helpful
On the other hand I'm quite competitive by nature so I always try to do my best in a tournament setting. For that reason my suggestions are geared toward that end when I comment on tournament lists.
Magic is paramount for TKs. In the early game you need it for smiting, mid game is all about getting the charge off with urgency and late game you will want to be summoning stuff back and getting off yet more charges. TK magic is nice and easy to get to grips with because you don't have to worry about miscasts etc, just make sure you write down everything in your hieratic order and use it as a checklist during the magic phase.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...
I agree with the general opinion.
The support order of choice is
3- bone gigant
I very much doubt that the gigant will ever pay off. Perhaps I'm sticking my chin out with this but: No gigant pays off their worth. Considering both their price and that they use a rare slot. On average.
At least I have never seen one makeing its money back. This is a pity because a bone gigant could be so cool! (without the head with a skeleton turban). I would love to pay a bit more points for a armour save and ws 4.
"The ones with lingon och skit" - Andusciassus
I dunno...if I were going to field a Giant, it'd be a Slaaneshi Chaos Giant. He's roughly the same point cost as Boney and generally nastier in combat since he doesn't use his crappy WS to try to bring his attacks to bare. Thump with Club is bad news for your opponents!
I'm a huge casket proponent, but with only having 1 rare choice at 1,500 points I must go with the flow here, much to my dismay and chagrin, and throw my lot in with the SSC. I avoided it at first because I don't like randomness (hell, that's one of the main attractions of TK for me). You could guess spot on and have the artillery/scatter dice totally jack up your day. That's not in my control and I just knew I'd hate it.
In actuality, however, my SSC has been pretty money. I'm better at guessing distance than I thought I'd be by leaps and bounds. Sure, it's only scattered into no-man's land once which was extremely annoying and probably cost me my last match. I had it set up to hit not one, but THREE pivotal Skaven units after my Prince's curse killed his General. But the PoS scattered 6 inches towards me and hit NOTHING. GRRR!
But other than that, the thing has earned its points back and many more time and time again. If you've only got one rare. Go SSC. If you've got two, forget the Bone Giant and go Casket + SSC imo.
I had a really nice response to this last night and then my computer crashed and I gave up. So here goes.
1. SSC is going to be your best bet. With it's ability to panic units it's going to be usefull for dealing with problematic units early on, such as knights and the like. Against horde armies it's particularly devastating as the low leadership means one unit panicking can quickly turn into 2 or 3 or more. I know one Orc and Goblin player who had 3/4 of his army run off the table in the first turn of a tournament. Eeven against armies that are immune to panic, just the damage that thing can do is nasty. A direct hit can kill things like stegadons and dragons and the template can take out entire ranks of cavalry and ironbreakers. Plus the thing can be healed and can shoot twice a turn with a dedicated lich priest.
2. Casket o' souls. Always a favorite, in a game this size casket has to go to second place. While the light of undeath is terrifying it's easily stopped with dispel dice or scrolls and even if it gets off you could potentially roll poorly and not really do the damage where it counts. There is also the fact that if you don't have a hill on your side, it's very possible nothing worthwhile will even be able to see it. It's othe main advantage is the -1 to casting. While this is particularly devastating against vampire counts, it's power against other armies is limited. Especially at 1500 points where you likely aren't going to see much for wizards. The final ability and arguably the best is that it eats up dispel dice while players scramble to stop the light. This does allow you to get many more of your incantations off, especially early on.
As far as protecting it from tunneling teams and flankers as well as flyers, it's situational. A unit of archers is good for tying them up. A spare tomb scorpion can do a good job as well. Not only will it tie them up but it has great offensive abilities and as it's not that wide its possible that attackers might be able to draw line of sight to the casket still and get all face-melty.
3. Bone Giant. Big Daddy B is truly terrifying and intimidating for an opponent, however he falls quickly to sustained magic attacks and war machine fire. He can be useful to give you an extra turn or 2 to advance, but he does it at heavy cost. While it's assault looks great, due to the low WS it's likely that it'll only get an extra attack or two. For a bit less you can get 3 ushabti which are going to hit just as hard, but with more attacks guaranteed and more wounds. Against lightly armored foes even a simple chariot unit can do double the damage of a BG at half the price.
Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1
well guys, you've all been most helpful which i really apreciate. Rather than telling me i must take whatever, i actually feel like i've been advised which is great so thank you all. If i knew how this rep thing worked i think i'd be sharing my love (which i'm sure is better than it sounds )
I think i am leaning towards the SSC, the model isn't too bad, and my dwarf 1500pt has 2 grudge throwers in so i do know how powerful they can be (will miss rerolling the scatter though).
I guess the casket will get better and better themore troops that are on the table when i stop to think about it, so i think maybe you're right about it at 1500pts (on a side note, saying you wo'nt meet many wizards at this level, last tourney i met a deamon player with 15 pd, yes, 15 at 1500pts, at least i was dwarves with my 7 dd but still, 15 )
The BG, although my favourite looking model, and i think i could work with the low WS (just needs some good rolls and you'll be thankful you took it) would probably be suited again to larger games where there are far more targets going around to attract attention, maybe even in 2k and i can get 2 in there
Anyway, thanks again for the advice, i think i've taken it onboard so we shall see
PS, Vallah, whereabouts in Newcastle you from? i'm from morpeth originally, although now living in manchester the last 3 years
This will sound crazy... I suggest that you focus the Casket
If you practise early how to use it, the Casket will be your best friend The risk is that you might loose quite alot the first games with it, but as you gain experience and learn from your mistakes, I'm sure you'll improve the most as a TK Player by fielding the beloved Casket.
As soon as you hit 2k, field a SSC
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Yep, this is probably about the best site I've found for TKs -it certainly tends to be about the most active and there are always plenty of people willing to help out. If you want to add to someones rep you just need to click on the orange thumbs up icon beneath their avatar.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...