Welcome to Librarium Online!
So, last night I played my sixth solo game with my Tomb Kings and I won. My record now stands at 3-3 in solo play and I'm on a two match win streak. Rumblings are beginning in my circle that my army is overpowered.
My game last night was against a fairly standard Slann-led Lizardman army, complete with EotG, an additional Level 1 Skink Priest and a Scar-Vet. My list was a fairly standard Tomb Kings list, led by a Destroyer-toting King (first time using this...OMG), with Chariot Prince and two Liche Priests (one on Casket).
I was getting annihilated by his magic phase and his annoying Skink scouts (that I didn't account for because he'd never used them before) shooting until Turn 3 (Note: I usually roll terribly for Skeleton archers). Then he can't try to dispel the Casket (and had no scrolls because he'd already used the Cube of Darkness to stop my Hierophant from incanting a Tomb King/Guard charge on his Engine and used another scroll to stop my Casket Priest from incanting an additional shot from the SSC). I didn't roll less than 9 for any Light of Death roll and rolled boxcars twice to his horror. Half his army, vaporized by angry spirits. Next turn, he saves three dice for it. I roll an 8. He rolls 7. Four units...completely gone. Leaving him with 2 units (one Saurus unit and his TG/Slann unit). Chariot charge destroys the Saurus, overrun into Temple Guard who're engaged in combat with my Tomb Guard unit. He concedes after the first turn of that combat.
During the first round of Light of Death rolls, my opponent is pretty upset at the Casket destroying half his army (only made worse by what happened the following turn where I rolled almost as well for damage rolls). Then proceeds to go on a tirade about how overpowered my magic phase is and that he can't conceivably stop it (nevermind that until I destroyed his EotG, he had 7 DDs to my 10EPDs, 1 scroll and the Cube of Darkness)...especially when I tend to gun for his EotG. A little background, our first game, I one shotted his EotG with a direct SSC hit in Turn 1 in my magic phase. Rolled 6 for # of wounds and he failed his ward save. After that, my magic just dominated the game. Other members of my group seem to be thinking the same thing as they feel like they have no chance when my magic phase is clicking on all cylinders.
There have been times when I've rolled like crap for every Incantation I've tried to cast and as a result, had my magic phase pretty much negated and those were three losses. I guess my point is that while I always feel like every game I play is fun, mainly because I'm usually fighting an uphill battle (except the game where I one shotted the EotG) but I've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat twice in a row due to my magic and warmachines. Even in those games that I come from behind, at the end they end up being massacres in my favor when we add up points.
I keep hearing "your magic phase is broken, it needs to be like everyone else's" one way or another and I just wanted to know if I'm the only one? I don't think I'm very good. I have a basic grasp of TK tactics, but all of my friends have been playing way longer than I have. I'm usually fighting against much bigger armies, full of better, cheaper units, stronger offensive magic and all sorts of crazy spells and items that I can't possibly account for most of the time. Yet I can't help but think what they'd be thinking if I ran a real magic heavy list or worse, a Vampire Count army. With me, the only variables you have to try to account for is whether or not I'll field Ushabti and whether I'll run a Tomb King or a High Liche Priest as a Lord.
Has anyone else had similar experiences or am I just crazy? Do I need to tone down my magic? Nevermind that my last two solo victories were with extremely aggressive TK/TP/LPx2 lists. My first solo victory was with a HLP/TPx2/LP list that was fairly balanced. The only bound items I take are the Casket and either the Staff of Ravening or Enkhil's Kanopi.
Last edited by Enigmatik1; November 24th, 2009 at 03:02.
I've gotten this abit, usually i've found the people who complain about it are the ones who try to dispell my pointless dice drawing movement spells and my smiting on a unit of archers who'll only take 10 weak shots anyway.
My point is that they need to adjust to your magic phase and learn which of your spells need to be stopped and which don't. I have also found my casket ends up doing much of nothing against the more experienced players who exploit cover/facings alot better then those who leave themselves open for this sort of thing to happen.
Tomb kings are far from overpowererd once you learn their tricks (and realise half the army can be destroyed in close combat by your nasties very easily) Tomb kings are still a competetive army in the right hands though so you still need to stay on the ball and focus on dealing with their strong points (limiting the amount of useful spells they'll have, minimising damage from spells you'll needa let through)
I also find it abit funny he'd complain about the casket when he has access to burning alignment which can't be stopped at all......
Most LM i've played will just try to charge my casket with terradons and kill the priest easily too (works if i'm not prepared for it sometimes and if they drop rocks on whatevers playing casket gaurd duty)
Last edited by outbreak; November 24th, 2009 at 03:17.
I had a favorable deployment in that regard as I had my Casket out of range for any of his units for at least three turns. His only recourse would've been to cast Conflaguration of Doom at my Casket Priest, but he was too busy spamming it at my Hierophant. I pretty much had to let him cast Fireball and Fiery Blast with relative impunity to make sure that my Hiero didn't go BOOM! since Conflag doesn't need LoS and has no range and I only had a Brooch of the Great Desert as my scroll.
In retrospect, he didn't do too badly with what he chose to dispel. My Skeleton archers got to move and shoot as much as they wanted to for as long as they lasted. He was hell bent on keeping my Ushabti in place, which he did so his annoying Skink Scouts could poison dart them into rubble (Constructs need poison immunity...ugh), not letting me double shoot the SSC and keeping my Tomb Guard unit from moving. Tomb Guard are the MVPs of my armies and my friends know it. They don't let me incant anything on them if they can help it because they know it's the only unit I can field that can stand up to most of theirs (HE Specials, Plague Monks/Censer Bearers, Saurus, Temple Guard, Heavy Cavalry). They all run Core-light lists usually. So I need my Tomb Guard to even have a chance as their standard units literally walk through anything with Skeleton in the name.
The thing is, I always make a point to kill one of their Wizards. I always pick their next highest, non-Lord Wizard to send Scorpions after and they rarely fail in their assigned duty. Once their Wizard bites it, my magic phase takes over the game. I actually felt slightly guilty about that but I don't see any other choice. Am I supposed to wade Skeletons and Tomb Guard units into their powerhouse units just so they can butcher them? It isn't pretty. The Tomb Guard is the best unit we have and it may be solid, but it's nowhere near being a powerhouse unit.
Last edited by Enigmatik1; November 24th, 2009 at 03:47.
TK are not overpowered. They may have had a case before VC and DoC were rereleased, but now, definitely not.
If they think your magic phase is overpowered, remind them that nothing in your army can march and that you pay 8 points a model for the stats of a goblin.
I've played at least 6 or 7 games against TK at my local gaming club. I'm an LM player.
With a litte ingenuity with your facings + using terrain to block LoS works wonders. Assaulted his catapults with my terradon flew over his catapults in turn 2, dropped rocks, then assaulted them.
With the catapult out the picture, it's just a matter of getting my engine down his flank and behind his army.
With the engine being immune to march block, this allows me to freely parade around behind me, Burning nearly all his units while keeping my back turned to the casket.
I play TK and tau(40k shooty army) both dominate 1 phase of the game and are rather weak(wrong word?) In the others. Something I like to do when people start complaining about my magic, complain about their other phases. "GOD, how did your guys move so far? How am I supposed to do anything when you just march everywhere?" And "Your 5 freakin' guys just killed 15 of my skeletons and didn't take any wounds!"(Nevermind I'll res 'em next turn)
Don't complain shooting though, they will latch on to the always 5+. Even though they start with 3s.
Depending on your opponents, a smug grin is also an effective counter.
For the greater good, my will be done!
Tau- 4k~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tomb Kings- 2.5k
Thousand Sons- 1850 ~~~~~Night Goblins- 900
Sorry for the rant...who knew winning could be so stressful/annoying. I'm seriously considering fielding the lightest magic list I can reliably come up just to prove a point.
I think the general concensus of opinion is that TKs are perhaps a little under powered these days (mostly as a result of their being a little older than most of the newer armies), and although I tend not to agree with this statement I think the fact that many tournaments are giving TKs a bonus comp modifier and (in some cases) even extra points to use speaks volumes about how we are viewed.
I also think the fact that you currently have a 50/50 win/loss record to date supports the notion that some of your mates are just bitching because you outplayed them.
I do have a suggestion for you that should end this debate almost instantly though:
The next time someone suggests your TKs are underpowered why not offer to swap armies with them for the next game and let them try out your 'overpowered' army for themselves? If it's as overpowered as they think then obviously they should have no trouble whatsoever putting you to the sword... should they?
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...
The only thing you guys got going for you IS your magic phase. You face it knowing he'll get spells off and you can't do anything about it. I'm sure if he would have forced combat with you he could have made a better game out of it.
US Master's Midwest Advisor.
Come join me at my GT this September www.brewfestgt.com
Tomb Kings have never been particularly overpowered. When they first arrived their magic was something new and an unknown factor. Its reliability is still one of TK's strengths. Unfortunately they weren't even a top tier army when they came out (their newness and uniqueness played into their hands for a while).
But really, they've never been able to control the battlefield as well as undead (through raising) or get beyond their starting numbers. Ushabti are good, but the likes of Black Knights have had the armour and speed over them (It's unfair to bring in Blood Knights since they're much newer).
TK are a decent army - good magic, reasonable combat, shooting that can be pretty versatile (Skirmishers? Pfft). None of it is outstanding, though - compare them to DE, DoC or even VC and they're on to a loser. Let your opponent take your TK then you wheel one of those out - see if he lasts beyond turn 3 .
Anyone who says TK are too good or overpowered is fighting against a tide of reality, and just needs to take a step back and work out how to play their own army a bit more.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone