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    Evil new 8th edition TK trick: read on

    I found a fun little common magic item that worked very well for my TK army the other day.

    The Wizard's hat seems like a so-so item for most armies. 100pt magic item, turns the wearer item a lv 2 wizard with a random lore. They also suffer from stupidity, but that shouldn't be a big issue since the only people who can buy 100pt items are usually LD 10.

    For most armies I would say it's not worth the points unless you're hoping for a Lore that you don't already have.

    But for Tomb Kings, it's a nasty little item. Suddenly all those power dice that you weren't using will get put to use each turn, virtually doubling your magical abilities.

    I tried it out against a High Elf army with my Tomb Kings. Having some big offensive magic spells really helped alot :twisted:

    Just thought I'd share that observation. I wonder if GW will errata that TKs cannot use that item? Because for now, as it stands, that's a hugely useful choice for us


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Vallah's Avatar
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    This has already been discussed at some length here on the forums bud. Since you missed it though, the quotes below give a good representation of the pros & cons associated with using the hat:
    Quote Originally Posted by shavenrat
    I woud never take the wizarding hat:

    - it gives stupidity, that you will fail in the most important moment of the game.

    - it gives two random spells from a random lore (let's get a D8 from D&D ), so it's not reliable.

    - it gives the king the possibility to cast with irresistible force, and get sucked in the warp (our magic is reliable, normal one isn't).

    For the above mentioned reason, I will take bound spells over wizarding hat every time:
    - Banner of Undying Legion, now is not limited to power 3 .
    - Rubyring of Destruction, it's cheap and an enchanted items.
    - The never old Staff of Ravening, also if expensive and has a short range.
    - Khalida staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by the8bit View Post
    Honestly if Tomb Kings dont want to use the Wizarding hat then I don't see that it will be used by anyone. Although I don't argue the power of bringing bound spells, here are the pro's of the hat:

    -2d6 power dice nearly every phase (maybe -1 or 2 if you use BotUL which everyone does)
    -All Ld checks are rerollable with BSB, so you have ~.5% chance of being stupid
    -There are few bad spells in the 8th lores of magic and many devastating ones. The lore attributes all are very nice. If you are terribly afraid of a miscast, you could move your TK out of the unit in move phase, then magically move him back into the unit with his "My will be done" after you cast your spells. If he miscasts, unless it instakills him you can heal him back
    -Could be used to build a list that easily has 2d6 + 13 power dice and 7+(1-2) casts (Tomb king + hat, LHP, LP w casket, TP) giving TK possibly the most power dice and dominant magic phase in 8th edition.

    Cons:
    -Lore is random, So every game you will have to make minor adjustments to your battle plan based on what you get. Will require more finesse as a general
    -Magic isnt reliable
    -Tomb king will have low armor, so must chose his battles more wisely. However, he is still T5 with 4 wounds.
    -miscast could instakill him which is bad if he is leading the army. You could feasibly bring 2 Tomb Kings though, if you wanted.
    I think that more or less covers it, but you can check out the full debate in the character builds thread.
    Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...

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    Roger that. Lots of 7th edition threads/discussions mixed in with 8th edition stuff. Must've missed that one.

    Personally, I'm a big fan of the hat (as stated above)

    Cheers

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    After one game without it, and a game with it, now I totally changed my mind and I'm totally devoted to the Wizard's Hat, used in my King and Queen list!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shavenrat View Post
    After one game without it, and a game with it, now I totally changed my mind and I'm totally devoted to the Wizard's Hat, used in my King and Queen list!!!
    Woo, glad to hear you've had similar results.

    In one of the games I played with it, I rolled on the Metal lore. The spells I rolled for it were: -1 to armor (stackable!) to target, and "Final Transmutation". Final transmutation uses the enemy's armor save as the to-wound roll, no saves allowed.

    So for example, in one game it was rolled against a group of 15 chaos knights with 2+ armor saves. Roll 15 dice (1 per knight)- any 2's or higher DIE with no save allowed. BOOM

    TK magic is good normally, but with that hat there is something viable for us to use the power dice on. Other than the cost, I see no reason to ever leave it out of my army.

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    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Also, sunstyle, you can get at least as much use out of the otherwise-wasted power dice by taking some of the following items:

    Ruby ring of ruin
    Banner of the Undying Legion
    Enekil's Kanopi
    Staff of Ravening

    Throw 2D6 into each one and you'll have exhausted enemy DD before the first incantation is cast. The downside is that each of them is situational. The two magic missile items require that the caster and the target not be in combat, and that the caster have LOS. Sounds easy, but unless you make a special unit to ferry around a character with the item (like putting the staff and the ring on a mounted priest and giving him a light cav bodyguard), it won't get used anywhere near every turn. The kanopi only works if there's a bound spell in play to dispel, and a smart opponent will know that you can just as easilly use your power dice in a direct dispel attempt if he dispels the kanopi, so he'll let it through. The banner only works if the unit carrying it needs healing.

    OTOH, the hat requires a 270 point investment into a model that may or may not get useful spells. So neither one is really reliable in terms of giving you extra spells that will force the enemy to burn DD. I might do both above 3k points...but at 1k-2999, I'll just rely on the bound spells.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
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    Senior Member Undivided's Avatar
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    @Sunstyle you used that spell wrong. You can either cast Searing Doom on a unit to get D6/2D6 hits that would on there armour save. Or final transmutation which kills each model in the unit of 5+. You can't combine them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    Also, sunstyle, you can get at least as much use out of the otherwise-wasted power dice by taking some of the following items:

    Ruby ring of ruin
    Banner of the Undying Legion
    Enekil's Kanopi
    Staff of Ravening

    Throw 2D6 into each one and you'll have exhausted enemy DD before the first incantation is cast. The downside is that each of them is situational. The two magic missile items require that the caster and the target not be in combat, and that the caster have LOS. Sounds easy, but unless you make a special unit to ferry around a character with the item (like putting the staff and the ring on a mounted priest and giving him a light cav bodyguard), it won't get used anywhere near every turn. The kanopi only works if there's a bound spell in play to dispel, and a smart opponent will know that you can just as easilly use your power dice in a direct dispel attempt if he dispels the kanopi, so he'll let it through. The banner only works if the unit carrying it needs healing.

    OTOH, the hat requires a 270 point investment into a model that may or may not get useful spells. So neither one is really reliable in terms of giving you extra spells that will force the enemy to burn DD. I might do both above 3k points...but at 1k-2999, I'll just rely on the bound spells.
    Unless I am mistaken, bound items are used in the hierarchy at the same time as the casting wizard, so unfortunately you can't throw all the bound items first to eat away the dice (unless I missed an errata)

    Even with the hat, the TK can still wield a HW/shield/LA and be WS6 S5 T5 W4 A4 5+/6+
    which is nothing to sneeze about in combat. In fact, with the DoE nerf, a TK with that setup or alternatively a GW preforms nearly as well as the old DoE/CoS setup but with a weaker save.

    Magic through items (bound or hat) are an integral part of the TK 8th edition setup though, never leave home without them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    Also, sunstyle, you can get at least as much use out of the otherwise-wasted power dice by taking some of the following items:
    True there- I usually use Enekil's and Banner of Undying (depending on the point size of the game)

    OTOH, the hat requires a 270 point investment into a model that may or may not get useful spells. So neither one is really reliable in terms of giving you extra spells that will force the enemy to burn DD. I might do both above 3k points...but at 1k-2999, I'll just rely on the bound spells.
    Such is the risk of most magic users unless you're using the high elf ability that lets you pick one spell. Anytime you use a Lore you won't quite know what it is. Having played several times with the hat, it has always given me at least one spell that is worth using- even if it is just a signature spell from that lore. But I understand that the randomness would not be appealing to some players. I think the range of "useful" to "not useful at all" spells is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    @Sunstyle you used that spell wrong. You can either cast Searing Doom on a unit to get D6/2D6 hits that would on there armour save. Or final transmutation which kills each model in the unit of 5+. You can't combine them
    Ahh. Ironically, it was a spell HE was familiar with. I said "Ok, I roll 5+ to kill". He shook his head and said "no, you roll on my armor to wound with final transmutation. Roll for everyone". Wiped the unit in one roll. He'll be pretty bummed when I tell him this. Lol. his fault, not mine =0. Thanks for letting me know

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    I think its a good thing to take, not just because it can be a great asset (as well as it can be a liability), but because it seems fun. Going into every game with new spells seems great, and you'll have plenty of dice to get those uber spells off. It also will help you get your ever-important incantations of by making them seem less important to dispel.

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