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I just finished my first 8E game against Skaven and thought I'd share my opinions/experiences so far. Needless to say, this game was an unfun massacare...in my favor.
This game was won solely in the very first magic phase of the game where my Wizard-King Spirit Leeched his BSB (he failed to dispel and the difference was 5 wounds), lost his Screaming Bell to a dead on magic-phase SSC shot (no scatter, max wounds, failed ward) and had his clanrat horde's S/T reduced by 1 via Soulblight...the same clanrat horde that was pushing the Bell plus his Grey Seer. His clanrat horde/Grey Seer was then panicked off the board in the shooting phase by the SSC (he rolled a 12, but could not re-roll thanks to a very, very dead BS. Skeleton Archers offed a few slaves before getting flanked charged by 5 gutter runners.
With the death of the General, slaves and rat ogres panicked off the board in droves. Leaving only one unit of slaves, one unit of stormvermin, a doomwheel, 4 gutter runners and a rat swarm unit of 3 left. I'd only lost 4 skeleton archers and 2 wounds off the SSC at the start of turn 2. My King slaughtered his Warlock Engineer mercilessly with a mundane great weapon. The Icon Berarer slew his unit champion and the Tomb Guard broke the Stormvermin (all in the same combat). Archers shot the slaves off the board. Ushabti made a mockery of the Doomwheel and the scorpion was munching on rat swarms because he scattered into theim. By the end of turn 3, he had no models left on the table.
Overall, the game was very one-sided and rather unfun. I wasn't expecting that since our first game was very fun, but ended with him breaking my 3 game winning streak. My magic literally blew him off the table in one turn. The Wizarding Hat is all kinds of win and may very well become what the Casket was for me in 7E. Auto-include. I really was hoping for Light or Beasts and was a little bummed when I rolled Death. Getting Spirit Leech and Soulblight just seemed...I dunno. Unfair. My magic failed me abysmally in our first game and I think fate overdid the balancing act. He only succeeded in dispelling 2 spells plus scrolling the Casket at the end of my first magic phase. Rolling a myriad of ones and/or simply failing to dispel sealed his fate.
My opponent doesn't like shooting heavy lists and tends to go balanced, but he left his shooting at home this game for some reason. As in, he had none aside from the Doomwheel...who's shooting did off 2 of my 5 chariots before it got punished by angry Ushabti. This was the first game I've ever gotten them into CC in quite some time and boy, did they lay the smack down.
Our magic phase can be retarded. I had every bound item possible in the list except the Kanopi and the Staff of Ravening. I didn't always use them obviously, but having so many options and the Lore of Death in conjunction with the Casket just made my magic phase retarded. What's sad, I ran a Wizard-King and Liche Priest on the Casket and a lowly Icon Bearer as my only characters. Once I started casting, he could only sit there in shock at how many spells/incantations I was casting. This was a 2,000 point game...it'll get even dumber as the point increase.
Some sources claim Stone Throwers got nerfed...no way. They're just as deadly as ever. Don't let anyone fool you. Once you get rid of that accursed BSB, at least...things just may start to panic/run. I was good at guessing ranges and enjoyed it, but I don't miss it either. I thought I would honestly, but I don't. BSBs must die first and quickly. That was my goal going into the game and that'll be my goal from this moment forward.
Chariots still command some respect. I had them spread out wide on my left flank, with Ushabti being closer to the center of my battle line, just to the inside of them. I've been complaining about Chariots for weeks, but my opponent still respected them enough to put his Doomwheel opposite them, which basically took it out of the fight until turn 3 (by then too little, too late).
Ushabti are really good once they get into close combat. 2x2 they punished his Doomwheel via counter charge. I let it charge my Chariots just so I could countercharge with the Ushabti and they cut through that thing like a hot knife through butter. Well, that and so I could lay wounds on it with the Cursing Word Banner...hehe. That didn't work (he made his checks), but he was put off by what the banner did since I'd never used it before.
The threat of the Casket is still very real...especially with no BSB/General. Since they were dead at the beginning of the phase, he had to scroll it to stave off the Light of Death. He's seen me wipe out 2 other armies with the LoD. He didn't want to be the third.
Tomb Guard are pretty friggin good. Granted, I stacked mine with both my King and my IB. My Skeleton Archers, who did well overall, were behind that Bulwark terrain piece that penalizes Destruction units in BtB contact. 18 TG+IB+GW TK broke and ran down a 25-model unit of Stormvermin in 2 rounds. Both rounds he was testing at an average of -3.
Overall, a rather disappointing game honestly. I'm somewhat glad I won...but I'm not overly fond of the manner in which it happened. It happened so fast and there wasn't a thing my opponent could do but remove models by the droves. I felt bad for him. Sure, he beat me handily the first time was played (7E) but at least that game saw more than 2 rounds of close combat and went the distance.
This was an aberration that will take awhile to get out of my mind and will definitely warrant some more thoughtful list construction so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again in a friendly game. I felt dirty on the drive home. The other list I was considering was magic light by comparison (no Wizard Hat and no Casket), but I really wanted to test the Hat...ugh. That thing is well worth its point-tag.
No need to feel dirty man. You were clearly blessed with some impressive luck.
By definition no Tomb King list can ever be described as dirty, given how far behind other army books ours is.
As for wizards hat, sounds like you got lucky again rolling up lore of death.
I suppose you're ultimately right. But that was the single most boring, one-sided game I've ever been privy to. We had a simultaneous game with our other friends going HE vs. LM. The LM player already believed our magic phase to be OTT in 7E (ironic coming from a LM player imo) because he couldn't stop it. He's yet to really have to deal with our army in close combat, though. I've beat him both times we've played in the magic and shooting phases.
I was outnumbered 4 to 1 and expected to lose a draw out battle of attrition...like I usually do against Skaven. My opponent is a great guy. I guess I just felt bad for him sitting there unable to do anything and basically getting slaughtered in Turn 1.
Edit: My catapult and casket were already feared in my group for making a mockery of opposing armies. Only in my first game against Skaven did my catapult fail to eliminate its primary target (that direct hit icon and I are good friends apparently, I see it so much). The Casket usually doesn't come into effect until turn 3. But the way I tend to deploy, there are (or were in 7E) almost always units out of CC that could be affected by it and when it goes off, it almost always goes off huge.
Conversely, when my units other than TG get into close combat, they tend to get slaughtered. I tend to roll terribly to wound in close combat.
Last edited by Enigmatik1; August 4th, 2010 at 14:31.
To your credit you cleartly felt bad at butchering your skaven friend mercilessly *giggles* but I certainly wouldn't feel guilty about using the wizard hat because the lores are too good. Our opponents (usually) get to choose freely from these whenever they like, and I dare say you would of felt a lot less dirty about it if your opponent was the one bitch slapping you around with the 13th spell or the like.
Congrats on the win, but I wouldn't read too much into this one, freakishly unusual result.
Because Sun Tzu would play Tomb Kings...
Yikes....that reminds me of the second game at my first GT, back in 2001...my opponent, playing Ksons, dropped over seven hundred points worth of (one wound each, but all of them psychers on top of being chaos terminators) chosen terminators in front of my DA gunline on turn two. All their psychic shooting (I-foolishly, but it worked out in that game-was running a librarian as my HQ, so the psychic hood came into play) killed two tactical marines. In turn I dropped four plasma cannon templates on them, and followed that up with five other various plasma weapons and 30+ boltguns, mostly inside 12". Traded two ablative marines for 40% of his army...he almost conceded on the spot, and ended the game with nothing on the board except for one immobilised land raider with one remaining godhammer... I went 2-3-0 in that tournament, and he went 3-1-1, so that crushing victory of mine was an aberation, just like yours was in this case.
I am getting more and more tempted to field a wizard king...but I still won't consider it under 3k points (which will be a pretty commonlevel, I think), since I still want a fighty king with ASS and dawnstone for that rerollable 2+...and of course a high priest with plaques and collar. My next project, though, is a mounted LP with ravening and a light horse escort.
I do agree that the SSC is still awesome (for firing twice and flamey magical attacks, when that matters), as is the empire mortar (for its size). Other stone throwers are only slightly improved...they lost power against high armor saves, since they don't negate armor, especially heavy cavalry, but hitting over a dozen models is fantastic, and more than overcomes this deficit against infantry, at least.
My experience with the 8ED casket is....fantastic. True LOS helps, as does the ability to hurt units in combat... What doesn't help, though, is when you see one 40-model unit instead of two 20-model units...half the pain!
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010