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Hi guys, getting excited about the new tomb kings units and in fact have just pre-ordered some stuff - one war/necrosphinx, 2 boxes of tomb guard and a unit of the stalkers/knights.
I'm not looking at doubling up on sphinxes or knights/stalkers in the short term, so what do people think is the better options to take? I've read over the rules very briefly, and both have their good and bad points. I'm leaning towards the warsphinx as a special as opposed to rare choice, seems nearly as good in combat and with addition of men on the back possibly even better. I am also leaning towards the knights, as the petrifying gaze seems fantastic but the risk of misfiring and blowing themselves up seems a bit harsh.
What are people's thoughts on the relative merits of each unit? My apologies if this has been discussed, I couldn't see it in the forum.
Inevitably it comes down to what you want the units to do. In my opinion the Stalkers are our premier war machine killers, since they can pop up and SAND the war machine crew, then go off and do other things, they are now the only unit which can kill things on the turn it arrives. Necropolis Knights are a more mainstream hard-as-nails Hammer/Flanker unit, with a 3+ save and a lot of attacks per model. So yeah, it depends on what you're going to use them for.
Warsphinxes have a different role than that of the Necrosphinx, the advantage of the Necrosphinx is the Fly ability (making him quite a bit faster and more maneuverable (since it can fly over intervening terrain and so forth), as well as Heroic Killing Blow on one of his attacks and Killing Blow on the rest.
So yeah, really depends on what role they are going to play in your army.
I'll give my two cents: The stalkers look good on paper, but the shooting is awful. Although it goes against the opponents initiative, nut it is strength 1. that means 6's against anything apart from dwarves and undead. (anything else has no warmachines). and for the price of the base 3 stalkers, you can get 2 scorpions, which can each get a warmachine, or evem flank charges.
I would recomend the Warshpinx if you have a smaller amount of units, as they can count as another unit for taking on the enemy. If you go for larger units, (4+) then take it as the Necrosphinx, and get flank charges in.
Since you are getting the stalkers / Knights et anyway, may I suggest a little bit of kitbashing, and get another three chariot bases, and stick the snake heads on the bases, with some greenstuff to cover the lack of body. As though they are comming out of the sane - that will get you both staklers and knights, and you can use both.
From a pure combat perspective, I would go for the knights, as they seem to have a better chance of surviving than the stalkers (3+ save, killing blow and poison).
And they can support the flank charge like the stalkers, the EBTS like the stalkers, and only a few point difference.
Try them both out - Proxy them and see which one you like.
The problem with other war machine hunting options is that they cannot destroy the war machine on the turn they come up, which is obviously a problem.Are you saying that no other armies have war machines? Because as far as I know, every army except Lizardmen has access to conventional war machines.that means 6's against anything apart from dwarves and undead. (anything else has no warmachines)
Also, needing 6s isn't a problem considering how many dice you need to roll. Even against Elf war machine crew on average you'll be rolling 3 sixes, which is enough to destroy them.
Other than the obvious war machine hunting capacity, Stalkers can effectively:
- Take out light flanking units
- Kill Stegadons, Hydras and Hellcannons very easily.
- Rip most of the Lizardmen army to pieces
So, to me at least, they beat out Scorpions and other EbtS units by sheer utility, for the price of 3 stalkers you get 2 scorpions, who might be able to take out that war machine at the earliest on turn 3, but certainly cannot take on hydras, stegadons or hellcannons. So yeah, I reckon Stalkers are a far better choice, personally.
From a pure combat perspective, Knights are better, and if you do give them EbtS not that much more expensive.
Thanks all for the comments. It seems the consensus is 'what role do I want them to play', and the truth is I won't really know until I get the book for myself and figure out the composition of the full army.
I really like the idea of kitbashing and making up both units from the stalkers box, with 3 of the 6 emerging from the sand. Given they are on the expensive side, and given how good that could look, an excellent idea so thanks very much.
Sorry - should have clarified - any other race that has warmachines are 6's to wound. Only dwarves and Tomb kings have the low I to wound on any better. so no difference between strength 1 and initiative 3, and strength 4 and toughness 7 (average warmachine toughness)
But you are true about the Hydras and the rest. and with a rank they can be better at combat res than scorpions. I guess that I have found my best warmachine hunter to be my casket. anything over 3 above their Ld and it is dead, then can jump to the next Warmachine they placed right by it... Just what i found to work in my last game.
I suppose we have to find what works well with the rest of the army, and what models we have.
Oh yeah, the Casket is a fantastic war machine hunter, add to that it gives you d3 extra power dice in your magic phase...it'll be finding its way into my army lists pretty much every time.
Fair point about Wood Elves and Vampire Counts, I'd forgotten about them.