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So looking over my new hard cover TK book, and i still cant figure out whether i should go buy a few more boxes of warriors and lace them with spears/handweapons. Has anyone attempted playing a heavy archer list yet? obviously you need your toys to win you the game but i guess what im asking is if our new toys (sphinx/snakes/ushabti/scorpions) are tough enough to hold the lines?
im worried because i dont want my 60 archers to be sitting in the cabnet for the next 3 years!
Im still building my sphinx so i dont know yet how it performs on the battle..... pretty freaking excited tho!
depends on what point lvl you are planning but for my 2k list i took 30 archers in two units of 15. Its not the mega shooty army everyone took with the old book, but enough to put a dent on giants or other annoying things. Scullapults are still valid but we have a lot of other things in the Rare slot. Both the heirotitan and casket of souls takes up rare space and both seem to be going as a stable for many lists.
Dont think using constructs to hold your line will work. You need skeletons and/or Tomb Gaurd to have a reliable center. Plump down a prince/king in the unit and they will hold out even longer.
In 8th edition with the old book, hand weapon and shield skellies made no sense when compared to skeletal bowmen. The problem was that for the same points, you got a choice between a 6+/6++ save for taking a shield, which was usually reduced to just the 6++ parry save, or you get a bow instead of a shield. Ray Charles can see that the bow causes more wounds than the shield saves! In addition, the smiting incantation, while it only affected one unit at a time, was extremely reliable, since you could keep spamming it until it got through. Finally, if you wanted to go all out on shooting by fielding Khalida, you could, for a price, upgrade EVERY unit to poison, not just one joined by the queen.
In the new book, the bowmen cost 50% more than the sword'n'board skellies, aren't guaranteed to shoot twice a turn, and only a unit joined by Khalida gets poison. I'm not saying 6 points per model is overcosted, it's actually reasonable...but bowmen used to be 99% as good as melee skeletons in melee-for the same price. There was no reason to take anything else. Now, if you drop the bow for a shield, not only do you get a 6+/6++, you also get 45 models instead of 30...so bowmen are no longer no-brainers. I'm still going to take two units as bunkers for my lich priests, but I expect my weight of fire to drop from 100 shots a turn from two blocks of 30 to just 30 shots a turn (unless I get smiting off, which I probably won't even bother trying unless either I have melee troops stuck in or I have nothing else to spend my power dice on) from two blocks of 15.
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Well, I am going to try a Khalida list tommorow. 50 Archers with khalida, Tomb prince and 2 LP in 1 unit is a bit overload, but it will help when they get into combat. Add in addition i added in chariots (for a countercharge), the Casket, Warphinx and 4 Bow Ushabti, plus a catapult, for all under 2k.
It is just to see what works, and what does not. I am in the same boat as you - 60 Archers sitting doing nothing. So i want to find a use for them. Currently I use 1 unit of 30 to eat up some core points...
i guess im just gonna have to bang out a few games at the club this weekend and figure out what works.
gonna try to get all 60 archers+2 catapults into a list.
and has anyone tried out the knights or the stalkers yet? really curious as to which ones are more effective before i go buy a box!
Last edited by Necrons; May 11th, 2011 at 16:24.
Stalkers are a waste of points. EBTS is means they will die 1 in 18 games and they can't do any damage until at least turn 2. Also a bad scatter could leave them horrible for away and no be able to shoot anyway.
There shooting attack is good but there problem is they just can't move. With no musician so no abiltily to swift reform they are horribly slow they just can't escape anything because of the slowness and large footprint. Also they are likely to be far away from you lines so wont be able to have the move again spell cast on them. So basicly if they come up and shoot at a unit it doesn't take many casualties so if it has nothing better to do it will turn around to face them and then they are screwed then after combat the unit has reformed from vicotry and is now coming back to your lines so there gone for 2 turns is that worth 165 points? And most high I enemies will just ignore ur poor damage output and the ability to kill yourself without them having to do anything. Its just rubbish and i so wanted them to be good! Cos they are pretty cool.
There ok at shooting warmachines but you have lots of other units in the book that can do that for less points. Like carrion, scorpions and light cav so thats not what they should be doing.
And i know they should be shooting monsters but all the good monsters have regen anyway...
It makes me sad =(
well thats disapointing to hear, but good to know, not a big deal i guess, the sphinx and knights are still kick ass models to bring to the table!
thanks for all the input guys, but it seems as if im gonna have to grind out a few losses before i figure it all out again.
In building my sister's Empire list, I've used blocks of 20 missile troops with a standard and the idea worked out quite well. They soak up quite a bit of missile fire themselves, and have survived CC due to the standard ...
I'm gonna roll like this with my skellie bowmen and see if it works with them too.
I've also had them show up right next to a big block of 20 warriors and not kill a single one and actually put some wounds on themselves. Then the warriors turned a round and charged the stalkers. They didn't live too long but they did exactly what I wanted them to do: they diverted a big block of warriors for a turn or two.
You just have to learn how to use stalkers. Sure they could die 1 out of 18 games, and that's why you shouldn't rely on them. 165 points isn't that much of an investment for 2K+ games. And at the 2k level there should be other monster killing units in your army as well.
Stalkers are made to make an opponent think twice about what he's going to do. No one likes having a unit of enemy troops in their back field. Then a unit that has a footprint as big as the stalkers is even worse. A good opponent will ignore them sure, but it's really hard to do when they show up behind your lines, get 15-20 automatic armor ignoring hits and kill 3ish guys or your biggest scariest monster. Regen is great, but when you're coming up against a lot of hits, you're gonna get it.
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