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  1. #1
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    40K to Fantasy Player- First TK List.

    Hey, I'm new to Warhammer Fantasy. I played a bit of 40K, but not a great deal.
    Eventually, my brother and I decided to give fantasy a go.

    He is rolling Lizardmen, where as I always had a weakness for the Tomb Kings. heheh.

    We have both made a 2K points list. We don't know what the other has though.

    Here's mine, I was just wondering if I could have an evaluation of my first list.


    Unit Name Options and Gear Points Breakdown Total Points
    Heroes & Lords
    Tomb Prince
    (General)
    1 Model
    Blade of Antarhak
    Shield
    60
    50
    2
    112
    Tomb Herald 1 Model
    Shield of Ptolos
    Sword of Swift Striking
    60
    25
    25
    110
    Liche Priest
    (Heirophant)
    Lore of Light
    1 Model
    Level 2 Wizard
    Dawnstone Talisman
    Glittering Scales Armour
    70
    35
    25
    25
    155
    Core Units
    Skeleton Warriors 16 Models
    Master of Arms
    Standard Bearer
    64
    10
    10
    84
    Skeleton Warriors 16 Models
    Master of Arms
    Standard Bearer
    64
    10
    10
    84
    Skeleton Archers 16 Models
    Master of Arrows
    Standard Bearer
    Light Armour
    94
    10
    10
    16
    132
    Skeleton Archers 16 Models
    Master of Arrows
    Standard Bearer
    Light Armour
    94
    10
    10
    16
    132
    Skeleton Horsemen 16 Models
    Master of Horse
    Light Armour
    192
    10
    32
    234
    Skeleton Horsemen 16 Models
    Master of Horse
    Light Armour
    192
    10
    32
    234
    Special Units
    Ushabti 3 Models
    Great Bows
    Standard Bearer
    150
    0
    10
    160
    Ushabti 3 Models
    Great Bows
    Standard Bearer
    150
    0
    10
    160
    Tomb Guard 10 Models
    Standard Bearer
    Razor Magical Standard
    110
    10
    45
    165
    Rare Units
    Necrosphinx 1 Model
    Envenomed Sting
    225
    10
    235
    Total
    1997


    Please don't rip my head off if it is absolutely terrible.

    I had a quick read through the rule book and the codex, so I think I have a rough jist of the rules.

    Last edited by Talorn; March 4th, 2012 at 22:29. Reason: Wrong Army

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  3. #2
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    Hello and welcome to the Desert, creating your first list is always hard, but listening to advice and getting your ass kicked is part of learning how to play, and don't worry if you get your ass kicked. Your brother has chosen an army that is in the top-tier while Tomb Kings is a middle-tier army.

    At 2000 points you really need a lvl 4 liche priest, especially for Tomb Kings, we use magic to counter our weaknesses, short movement, weak models, almost no armour saves etc. Also he can't have magic armour, if you want him to do magic, which is the only reason to bring him really. I would advice you to give him a Talisman of Preservation instead of the items you have given him, simply because it provides him with a 4+ ward save.

    You need a prince for each unit of Skeleton Warriors and one for each unit of Tomb Guards, and they need extra armour or ward saves, we need to protect our heroes and lords not for them to kill stuff, they will do that anyhow.

    16 Warriors is far too few for a solid unit of these, I usually go 40+ each.

    Champions in archer units are not worth their points, no matter what race you play, and standard bearers in archer units just gives your opponent easy victory points.

    I think you mean 8 horses and not 16, they might actually be worth it at your price. I've never actually used them myself, but other people say they are no good, and I'm inclined to believe them based on their stats.

    Ushabti with great bow seems like a good idea, but when you realize you are paying 150 points for 1 shot each turn it sort of blows. I like them with Great Weapon though, strength 6 is amazing and 4 attacks each Ushabti is awesome. I'd run 6 Ushabti as one unit though, not two.

    As with the Warriors you really need more Tomb Guards each unit for them to be effective, I'd say about 30 models.

    As for rare choices I really like the Screaming Skull Catapult, especially against Lizardmen, it can take out an entire stegadon each round, you just have to be a little lucky.

    I'd go for a Casket of Souls as well, since it improves every magic round you get, the best magic rounds I get are usually a roll of double 1's since I can get 6 Power Dice, while my opponent gets a single Dispel Dice.

    If I was you I'd snoop around the "Army List" subforum for a while, simply to get a feel of other people's lists. It might make it easier for you to create your army list and to get a feel of the army. Last but most important thing, you mustn't write the cost of individual upgrades, only the total of each unit, and not the cost of "bare" units. This is because Games Workshop says not to.

    E.g.
    10 spearmen - 100 points
    is not allowed, while
    10 spearmen + full command - 100 points
    is perfectly fine
    That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest-son-of-a-bitch in space!

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    Hello and welcome to the Desert, creating your first list is always hard, but listening to advice and getting your ass kicked is part of learning how to play, and don't worry if you get your ass kicked. Your brother has chosen an army that is in the top-tier while Tomb Kings is a middle-tier army.
    I don't really know what that means, but it sounds nasty hahah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    At 2000 points you really need a lvl 4 liche priest, especially for Tomb Kings, we use magic to counter our weaknesses, short movement, weak models, almost no armour saves etc. Also he can't have magic armour, if you want him to do magic, which is the only reason to bring him really. I would advice you to give him a Talisman of Preservation instead of the items you have given him, simply because it provides him with a 4+ ward save.
    The liche priest option in the codex only gives the upgrade choice to 2 though. That's why I wrote that. What do the levels actually do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    You need a prince for each unit of Skeleton Warriors and one for each unit of Tomb Guards, and they need extra armour or ward saves, we need to protect our heroes and lords not for them to kill stuff, they will do that anyhow.

    16 Warriors is far too few for a solid unit of these, I usually go 40+ each.

    Champions in archer units are not worth their points, no matter what race you play, and standard bearers in archer units just gives your opponent easy victory points.
    Unless I was looking at the wrong codex, which happened to me often when making my 40K list, I'm only allowed 3 lords options, which I used in the Herald, Prince and Liche. How can I get more princes for my troops choices?

    I only said 16 because GW sells them in boxes of 16, and I thought they would've made 1 box a decent fighting group.

    As for the Champion issue, my brother and I don't really play official match sort of things. It's just whittle the army down and decimate them. haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    I think you mean 8 horses and not 16, they might actually be worth it at your price. I've never actually used them myself, but other people say they are no good, and I'm inclined to believe them based on their stats.
    I said 16 because I thought more horses would always be better. I shall change that though and enter a revised list later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    Ushabti with great bow seems like a good idea, but when you realize you are paying 150 points for 1 shot each turn it sort of blows. I like them with Great Weapon though, strength 6 is amazing and 4 attacks each Ushabti is awesome. I'd run 6 Ushabti as one unit though, not two.
    Ahhh.... I thought I'd use my Ushabti for ranged combat, but if they're better with a great weapon, I'll do that. Also merging them into one group gives me a spare special unit choice right??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    As with the Warriors you really need more Tomb Guards each unit for them to be effective, I'd say about 30 models.
    Would two groups of 30 do it then? With the extra space made by joining the Ushabti.. or would you recommend throwing in a different unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    As for rare choices I really like the Screaming Skull Catapult, especially against Lizardmen, it can take out an entire stegadon each round, you just have to be a little lucky.

    I'd go for a Casket of Souls as well, since it improves every magic round you get, the best magic rounds I get are usually a roll of double 1's since I can get 6 Power Dice, while my opponent gets a single Dispel Dice.
    I took a look at the screaming skull catapult, and it looked quite nice, but I just love the Necrosphinx as well. It looks pretty and sounds devastating.

    Also, despite reading the rules several times, I feel very uneasy with the Casket of Souls. I'm not sure I entirely understand how magic works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasso290391 View Post
    Last but most important thing, you mustn't write the cost of individual upgrades, only the total of each unit, and not the cost of "bare" units. This is because Games Workshop says not to.

    E.g.
    10 spearmen - 100 points
    is not allowed, while
    10 spearmen + full command - 100 points
    is perfectly fine
    Sorry, I did that so I could add it up easier. I'll leave it out in my revised list.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talorn View Post
    I don't really know what that means, but it sounds nasty hahah.
    It means your brother has an easier time creating a better list.

    The liche priest option in the codex only gives the upgrade choice to 2 though. That's why I wrote that. What do the levels actually do?
    I meant a lvl 4 Liche High Priest. I'd recommend you read through the magic section of the rule book, each lvl grants your priest another spell from the spell book and an additional +1 modifier for each lvl.

    Unless I was looking at the wrong codex, which happened to me often when making my 40K list, I'm only allowed 3 lords options, which I used in the Herald, Prince and Liche. How can I get more princes for my troops choices?
    You might have been looking at the wrong army book, in 8th edition your army list is created using percentages, up to 25% lords, up to 25% heroes, minimum 25% core, up to 50% special and up to 25% rare. Also Herald, prince and priest are all hero choices, not lord choices.

    I only said 16 because GW sells them in boxes of 16, and I thought they would've made 1 box a decent fighting group.
    They might have at one point, but in this edition it is all about hordes(10 wide front) and loads of models.

    As for the Champion issue, my brother and I don't really play official match sort of things. It's just whittle the army down and decimate them. haha.
    I do the same, but think of it this way, you can get 2½ more warriors for each standard/champion you've bought for your army, add them up and it gets to be quite a lot of warriors.

    I said 16 because I thought more horses would always be better. I shall change that though and enter a revised list later.
    I meant your total points cost didn't add up to the amount of horses you had written, 8 horses would add up to the total you wrote. And in 8th edition Games Workshop nerfed all horses of all races, it's not just Tomb Kings.

    Ahhh.... I thought I'd use my Ushabti for ranged combat, but if they're better with a great weapon, I'll do that. Also merging them into one group gives me a spare special unit choice right??
    Again it's percentages and not slots in this edition

    Would two groups of 30 do it then? With the extra space made by joining the Ushabti.. or would you recommend throwing in a different unit.
    keep an eye on your points total, I have a hard time fitting just one unit of Tomb Guards into my army lists, and with another unit of Tomb Guards you also need another prince to buff their weapon skill.

    I took a look at the screaming skull catapult, and it looked quite nice, but I just love the Necrosphinx as well. It looks pretty and sounds devastating.
    Then by all means go for a Necrosphinx, some people use them I have chosen not to, but plenty of other people do. The reason I recommend a screaming skull catapult is simply that it has a 33% chance of hitting a stegadon with a strength 9 hit, which causes D6 wounds, which means it DOESN'T wound on a 1 and can kill a stegadon in 1 hit.

    Also, despite reading the rules several times, I feel very uneasy with the Casket of Souls. I'm not sure I entirely understand how magic works.
    Don't worry, it's natural, it takes a while, and it takes some practice. After a few games I'm sure you will have figured it out.

    Sorry, I did that so I could add it up easier. I'll leave it out in my revised list.
    Rules for posting army lists are in the sub-forum, first post
    I will post one of my own lists here, just for you to compare and hopefully get some ideas for your next list.

    Lords - 255

    Liche High Priest - 255
    Level 4 upgrade
    Talisman of Protection

    Heroes - 453

    Tomb Prince - 154
    Great Weapon
    Armour of Destiny

    Tomb Prince - 104
    Great Weapon

    Necrotect

    Tomb Herald - 135
    Battle Standard Bearer
    Standard of the Undying Legion

    Core - 618

    10x Skeletal Archers

    10x Skeletal Warriors(Bunker for the Liche High Priest)

    42x Skeletal Warriors(Tomb Prince witout armour here)
    Standard Bearer
    Champion

    3x Chariot

    3x Chariot

    Special - 273

    Tomb Guard - 273
    Standard Bearer
    Champion

    Rare - 400

    Screaming Skull Catapult

    Hierotitan

    Casket of Souls
    That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest-son-of-a-bitch in space!

  6. #5
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    Right, I've redone my list.

    Unfortunately, I am having some financial issue at present, and was forced to alter the list to include them.

    Unit Name Options Points
    Lords 305
    Liche High Priest
    [[[Heirophant]]]
    Level 4 Wizard
    Armour of the Silvered Steed
    Tricksters Helm


    Lore of Light
    305
    Heroes 421
    Tomb Prince
    [[[General]]]

    (Tomb Guard)
    Armour of the Silvered Steed
    Shield
    147
    Tomb Prince

    (Skeleton Warriors)
    Dragon Helm
    Shield
    Shield of Ptolos
    137
    Tomb Prince

    (Skeleton Warriors)
    Dragon Helm
    Shield
    Shield of Ptolos
    137
    Core 700
    Skeleton Warriors

    (Tomb Prince)
    32 Models
    Full Command
    158
    Skeleton Warriors

    (Tomb Prince)
    32 Models
    Full Command
    158
    Skeleton Archers 32 Models 192
    Skeleton Archers 32 Models 192
    Special 300
    Tomb Guard

    (Tomb Prince- General)
    20 Models
    Full Command
    Banner of Eternal Flame
    Halberds
    300
    Rare 240
    Screaming Skull Catapult Skulls of the Foe 120
    Screaming Skull Catapult Skulls of the Foe 120


    (Should I stick with the 'Tricksters Helm', or go for the 'Cloak of the Dunes'.)

    I did have a list that was much nicer, but it came to £400 and nearly gave me a heart attack. This one is just under £300. I tried to put most of the points into upgrades rather than units, due to my money issues.

    Chances are though, I'll expand the list when I get a good supply on income. I want that bleedin' Necrosphinx

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    A couple of issues with magic items here. You can't give priests magic armour, you can't have duplicate magic items, you can't get more than one magic item in each category for each character and your highest lvl priest has to have lore of Nehekhara, because he has to be your Hierophant.

    I'd advice your Tomb Princes to use Great Weapon since it adds +2 strength, and they have 2 initiative, which means they attack last most of the times anyway.

    I'd go for a dispel scroll and talisman of preservation.

    32 archers is a lot of archers, I'd advice you to separate them into more smaller units, for instance 4 units of 16 archers.

    My main issue with this list is that you seem to have no hammer units, which means you will likely get stuck in battle and will slowly get grinded down, skeletons can't stand up against most things. I'd go for at least 1 unit of 3 chariots, which means you could very well buy the battalion pack, I hear some people have even converted the cavalry into screaming skull catapults. Each chariot causes D6 strength 4 hits when it charges, and afterwards each chariot has 4 attacks from charioteers and 2 attacks from the horses. Another merit being that the battalion pack is cheaper than buying the individual packages.
    That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest-son-of-a-bitch in space!

  8. #7
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    Hmm. I disagree with a few things that have been said, but they're mostly leading you in the right direction. My main disagreement is with the statement that tomb guard need a prince to lead them. Now, in the current rule set, princes are primarily there for the MWBD special rule. Raising core skeletons from WS2 to WS5 is well worth ~150 points. The same 150 points, when spent to raise TG from WS4 to WS5, are flat out wasted, especially since TG are at their best when scoring killing blows, which are WS-independent anyway!

    As for the question about the maximum number of lords, what rulebook are you reading??? In other words, that sounds like a rule from an out of date set of rules. Please post the copyright date of the rulebook that you are using!

    Anyway, lords and heroes are separate, I recommend taking lich high priests (lords), princes (heroes), and possibly necrotects (heroes). Only if you already have two HLPs should you consider a hero-level LP.

    If you do take chariots, then in my opinion, four is the 'right' number to take. More than that gets cumbersome, and taking just three is risky because you have no room to take casualties and still remain effective.

    As always, JMHO, YMMV!

    /edit/

    And for Settra's sake, man, STOP cutting and pasting whatever program you use to make your army lists into LO! It makes my eyes bleed trying to fish any information out of the mess. If you want people to help you, please, have the courtesy to make the list readable!
    Last edited by Marnepup; March 6th, 2012 at 07:25.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    when spent to raise TG from WS4 to WS5
    Once again Marnepup, Tomb Guard are WS3 not 4, which means with a prince you usually get to hit on 3's not on 4's which means a whole lot of extra attacks go through to to wound which in turn means more killing blows scored.
    That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest-son-of-a-bitch in space!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    As always, JMHO, YMMV!

    /edit/

    And for Settra's sake, man, STOP cutting and pasting whatever program you use to make your army lists into LO! It makes my eyes bleed trying to fish any information out of the mess. If you want people to help you, please, have the courtesy to make the list readable!
    I have no idea what those acronyms are, and I'm not cutting and pasting anything.

    That table is used using the table menu on the advanced posting options.
    Seriously, what's so hard to read about it???

    [hr]

    The High Liche Priest rules say it can have Nehekara, Light or Death... I thought it was possible to choose one of them. I was just commenting because I had a look through the list of Nehekara spells, and I didn't like the look of them. However, I guess, once I play a few games I'll understand what they do better.

    I could reduce the Skeleton Archers to 16 each and then add some Chariots.

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    Sorry, if it looks fine in a normal web browser, I apologize, the librarium's iphone app is making a mess of it, then.

    Aa for the HLP, it says elsewhere that the highest ranking priest must be the hierophant and that the hierophant must take the lore of nehekara.

    Jmhoymmv means just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary.

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