Wtf!!!

[Marnepup]

So.... The price of a demigryph knight... Compared to ushabti... We get the shaft! With the (free) halberd upgrade, they throw off S5 attacks like it's going out of style, have 1+ armor, M7, and I3/I4. For 8 points more. WS... I think that's at least as good as ushabti.

Maybe they're better compared to snake surfers, but I could never bring myself to like those, so I don't know the stats.

[airjamy]

Got your point about the knights, i just feel it is a pity that we had a unit like that while we were a historically correct army untill that. If you take the 7th ed book, it really had the archaic military style of Egypt, with the nice touch of fantasy in the Scorpion and the Bonegiant. I feel like that they tripped the balance with the surfers, even though this is just a personal taste.

Game-wise, i think they are better then ushabti indeed. Still not going to use them!

[The Shadow King]

Take this post with a grain of salt as I am using the stats of the Demigryph Knights off of the GW website as I do not have an Empire book and apologise if I do say something that is wrong.

The Demigryph Knights look awesome, and that free halberd upgrade is quite neat, but you are trading in 1pt in armour save for that +1 strength (as you wont be able to use the shield when wielding a 2 handed weapon), so yes the knight will be at S5 but will have a 2+ armour save. I cant see these guys in running in units of more then 4, as cav they will suffer from the mount not being able to attack from behind the front rank. I decided for some kicks (and I was particularly bored) in playing out a combat between the Gryph knights and Ushabti and ran it 10 times. the Knights wiped out the shabs 8 of the 10 times (3 models each side, Halberds on the knights, GW on the shabs, champions for each unit), but it wasn't all one way traffic, the shabs would only be leaving one knight behind with a wound on him on average, so they held their own, the GW hindered the shabs a little as they were able to keep up in dishing out as many wounds as they were taking.

With that in mind I would never take Shabs in units of 3's. I think the smallest I have run them is 4 and the max being 6. In these circumstances they wiped out the Gryph knights every time. Going up against the Necro Knights it was pretty even but with the extra attack on the riders for the Necro Knights proved too much usually for the Gryph's and in a war of attrition the Necro Knights were mostly winning in those circumstances. I actually even thought about comparing the Gryph Knights to the Necrolith Colossus (as I was looking for models in our army that were around the same price as the Gryph's). Surprising enough the Colossus was actually winning combats more often the not (thanks to that relentless assault and S8!!).

In the end I don't think we need to be afraid of these guys, we have enough at our disposal to deal with them......

[airjamy]

I see them as the reaction on the fact that every army needs a monstrous cav option, something that is kinda cool. Game wise, its all about the points. They are priced pretty much right, i guess.

[Marnepup]

Yeah, I know 300 points of shabs beat 175 points of gryphs...duh! It's nearly twice the points. And being neck and neck in a 3 on 3 fight with the gryphs winning only illustrates my point that the points aren't right. On top of being slightly better in melee, the gryphs are faster and more resistant to characteristic test based spells (like purple sun and whatnot) and shooting. I actually think the gryphs are costed about right, but ushabti are overpriced by comparison. Besides that, empire has the ability to put characters on mounts that make them monstrous cav (pegs) and then join the gryph unit, which is a big enough deal that it should be reflected in the points cost.

[rothgar13]

It's not exactly news that they whiffed big time on the price of Ushabti. It's not that the Demigryph Knights are too cheap - it's that Ubis are too expensive. Personally, I'd just come up with a clever conversion for Snake Surfers if you don't like the models - they really are good, and should be used.

[Marnepup]

I guess if the opinion that ushabti are overpriced was common before, I was blissfully unaware, since empire didn't have a comparable unit and my WoC are barely under construction.

I do know how powerful the snake surfers are... I may have to think about some skeletonized monstrous cav mount for an alternative. But for now, overpriced as they are, I'm pleased with the results that I'm getting from my shabs, and they're awesome models!