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I am a seasoned Fantasy player and am creating a Tomb Kings army to take with me to the Grand Tornament later this year. I am not a huge fan of hugely beardy army lists (cough, Skaven, cough) but still want to take something competitive. To this end my special choices could either consist of:
25 Tomb Guard
2 Tomb Scopions
3 Tomb Scorpions
What does everyone think, I would be hugely greatful for any feedback,
Tomb Guard, you dont need that many scorpions
btw, how many points, if its 2000 or less you might want to consider not taking tomb guard at all
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i would have to agree with blooddragon and go with the tomb gaurd. There a fairly solid unit especially when supported by a cc character.
It is a 2000pt army list. My thoughts were that Tomb Scorpions will probabily cause just as many wounds in close combat as the Tomb Guard and if you take three, you can risk at least one of them (if not two) coming from below. I supose if I took Carrion they could deal with enemy war machines quite easily. I just thought that a 24 man Tomb Guard unit including the Banner of the Sacred Eye (a must have) would come to a cool 352 points with a command unit. If you put any close combat character with it (the King being the most probable) you are looking at a unit worth some 625+ points. If one goes on the philosophy that the majority of units should score victory points equal to or over thier own points cost to be a success in a game, that is an awful lot of points to make up. These are just my thoughts and I am most open to more opinion. Incedently STREWART how do you use your Carion?
In reality, you can't truly convey whether a unit has 'made its points back' in Warhammer, unless the unit is a dedicated combat unit that is solely there for killing things (and even that is a bit hazy).Originally Posted by willadams33
Here's my thoughts on why:
Number one (and one of the more obvious) examples: The Casket of Souls!
Its cost alone, plus the cost of the Liche manning it (upward of 250pts) will rarely kill enough enemies with the Light of Death to make its points cost back. However, the three dispel dice that your opponent saves to dispel it which in turn allow you get a critical Urgency spell to work on a Chariot or Ushabti unit can easily cause you to win a combat elsewhere on the battlefield that more than makes up for both units (combat unit, and Casket).
It's difficult to quantify who is actually winning you the victory points:
a. It could simply be the combat unit that is flanking the enemy, breaking them, and then running them down, thus the probable thought is 'The Ushabti/Chatiots won back their points costs three times over'.
b. It could be the Liche who actually cast the Urgency Incantation that allowed the combat unit to engage the enemy.
c. Or as previously stated, it could be the Casket itself, who causes the opponent to reserve dispell dice to stop it from activating.
I happen to think it's a hazy combination of the three.
Also, the fact that the Casket makes enemy casters suffer a -1 penalty to cast spells can in effect 'pay for itself' if the -1 penalty causes a massive spell (Gork's Warpath, etc) to fail to activate for one turn.
The same can be said about your macked out Tomb Guard unit. It's 600+ points that will definately influence your opponents deployment, movement phase and engaging tactics. Whether you kill 600+ points or not, you may have influenced your opponent with this unit in such a way that puts him at a disadvantage so another unit can make up the points cost.
Personnally, I see it as overkill and more of a liability than an asset, seeing as 200 points worth of Ushabti can essentially obtain a similar reaction from your opponent, and how you can spread your eggs around, rather than put them all in one basket.
First turn, I move them forward with my whole army (I play quite offensively) but a bit further forward, so they are within charge range for next turn. Then in the magic phase, I make sure they get the incantation of urgency and they then charge a warmachine. Usually they win and are behind opponents lines, in the second turn they are ready to do a range of things from mage hunting, warmachine hunting, marchblocking, or sometimes even attacking the back of units to get a couple of kills for combat resolution.Originally Posted by willadams33
So far, my magic has always been strong enough to at least get them behind opponents lines in the first turn even if they can't quite reach their target.
To answer you question from my perspective:
Tomb Scorpions, hands down. My reasons are thus:
1. Cost: Skeletons are better infantry for the list, so if you want an infantry block, you should be buying skeletons. Your general strategy for taking down units should be, charge skeletons in the front, chariots in the flank. That will break any unit. So paying a premium for slightly better stats is rather pointless.
2. Flexibility. Tomb Guard aren't flexible. They're slow (move 4), and yes you can incant them, but its a waste. That incantation could be better spent positioning scorpions or chariots to kill characters, skirmishers or war machines, setting up flank charges, or firing your archers/catapults.
Scorpions on the other hand are incredibly flexible. They pretty much rape characters. They easily take down war machine crews, light cav, skirmishers and flyers (like teradons/harpies). They also provide much needed Umph! in combat. And while you might say tomb guard do that, they are much less reactive. If you misdeploy them, or get outmaneuvered, you're pretty much SOL. Keep in mind with scorpions, you can move them up to 21" in a single turn: move 7", then urgency and charge 14"!!
3. Fear Factor. Most opponents you face will fear scorpions. You can easily use it to your advantage. While tomb guard are kinda nasty, there are several other S4 T4 infantry units in the game with cool special rules and whatnot. There aren't any other cheap, S5 T5, poisoned, tunneling, killing blow, movement 7 baddies around, and your opponent knows it.
4. Pursuits. While not a reason in itself to take scorpions, do keep in mind that they get to pursue 3d6.
5. Tunneling. While not my favorite thing to do with Scorps, I'd be silly not to mention it. Having those tunneling markers on the table can often make your oppenent hold back and wait to see what happens. Aside from that, you can't beat having a scorpion comming up on your second turn and killing a cannon or mage or something equally valuable to your opponent.
Hopefully this gives you some good points to consider. If you're still in doubt, just think about some of your past games, and ask yourself if you actually needed the tomb guard. Could skeletons have done the same job they did? Would you rather have another scorpion on the table to kill that annoying mage/gyrocopter/cannon or something similar? Thats probably the best way to make a desicion, but it never hurts to have some experienced input!
Ive misplaced my army book, what unit strength is a tomb scorpion???
It seems all my undead just die in combat res!!!!
If I could get a flank charge off once in a while!!
Under 2,000 points i like to take 3 scorpions, people say its crazy but when i tunnel 2 in with some tomb swarms they arent laughing.
I play with begginers who have adopted the tactic of taking lord level mages and keeping them at the back of their line, i tomb swarm them throwing 10 posioned attacks their way and thats 300-400 points down the drain
But back to the scorpions, below 2,000 points few things can managably be fitted into an army to effectivly take out things like single units with S5 T5 especially not when they can be healed.
And if the enemy has units to remove the scorpion threat then they have made sacrifices elsewhere and they suffer for it.
P.S. I LOVE it when my regulars await my tunneling scorpions only to reveal that once every 3-4 battles i only decide to take one!!
For my 2000pts list I use 19TG with FC and icon of rakaph, 2TS, and 3-4Carrion