Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I don't know if this should be in the Army Lists section, or in the Dwarfs section, or what, so sorry if it's in the wrong spot.
I primarily play against Dwarfs, and I primarily get completely slaughtered. While I think this is mostly because we've been playing 1000pt battles, it's still embarassing to have only beaten a few ironbreakers and slayers over the course of ~6 battles.
The fact that the guy was surprised when I took out someone else's unit was enough to make me want to stick it to him. I dont really care if I beat him, I just want to not get wiped out.
I now have enough for a 2000pt fight, and I'm confident in the list I have, but I'd just like to see other peoples' opinions
As of right now, I have:
-1 Khalida (Don't have her yet, but I bought her on eBay, so it should be soon) (Lord)
-1 Tomb King/Prince (Lord/Hero)
-1 Liche Priest/High Priest (Hero/Lord)
-1 Mounted Liche Priest/High Priest (Hero/Lord)
-1 Icon Bearer (Hero)
-1 Mounted Icon Bearer (Hero)
-16 Skeletons with Bows
-16 Skeletons with Spears and Shield
-8 Heavy Horsemen
-3 Chariots (Special, if a Tomb King or Khalida isn't taken)
-2 Tomb Scorpions
-1 Ushabti (I know it's not legal, I just haven't found anymore yet)
-1 Screaming Skull Catapult
-1 Bone Giant
DOGS OF WAR
-1 Albion Dark Emissary (Ordered him, but he should be here soon) (I'd prefer not to take him, but like I said, I'd do anything just to not get wiped off the board)
I prefer to only use what I have the models represented as, but using Heavy Horsemen as Light Horsemen, or changes some Skeletons to have different weapons is fine.
And yes, I know how stupid it was to build 16 of the Skeletons as Archers
He usually takes units of Ironbreakers, Slayers, Warriors, Longbeards, and Hammers, so he definitely has a numbers advantage. He also takes a Cannon, Organ Gun, and Gyrocopter. I figure my Carrion can handle one of these three, but not all of them.
And I know I need to buy some Tomb Guard. It's next on my list.
I'm not asking anyone to make me a list (I mean, if you want to, I won't stop you) just some suggestions, please.
Last edited by SilentRamble42; January 6th, 2007 at 22:16.
Hello, I have not been playing TK's for long but have found it important to fill all your character slots first. i.e. all 4 in a 2000 point army. I usually take a prince, high priest and 2 ordinary priests. It is important to get as much magic going as possible. TK magic is not very powerful but should be relentless to swamp your opponent. A couple of bound spells will also help i.e. S of Rav and Ban of Un Leg. to make it more difficult for your opponent to know what to use his dispel dice on. Have not used Khalida so can't help there.
Your next priority for figures should be 2 more Ashubti and 2 bases of swarms.
2 bases of swarms is unit strength 6 ( and roughly the same points as one scorpion)which will negate rank bonus of his infantry blocks if you attack them in flank or rear. Use one scorpion to knock out his artillery ASAP. Do not use them to fight his infantry blocks by themselves as they will soon get worn down if unsupported and die ( Only unit strength 1). Scorpions and swarms can also be useful if they emerge in the first couple of moves from below to attack his shooting units in rear or flank. Can't be shooting if they're in close combat can they? Shooting units usually don't have the benefit of rank bonuses for combat resolution either.
Ashubti are close combat monsters but need help with magic to summon back wounds from artillery and shooting weapons while shambling forward. Also use magic to get them into the fight ASAP. It will really help if you can get a full 3 model unit into the fight.
The bone giant is a great model and I have not had a 2000 point battle without him; but am not sure if he is going to be worth the points against high toughness and high leadership armys such as dwarfs. I usually play against elves and have found that even against them he needs support from another unit to remove the rank bonus of a big unit before getting overwelmed by all those extra bonuses.
Am having some luck with a unit of 4 or 5 carrion lately. Stonehambey will advise a unit of 10 though I have not yet tried this.
A good old frontal chariot attack with a unit of 3 and full command plus another with a prince in it and Char of F should give some good results. Throw them against the middle of his line ASAP.
Also putting one of your priests with the catapult and skulls of F will be good value against massed ranks of dwarfs. The priest will give you the oppotunity of firing it in the magic phase as well as the shooting.
Don't forget ,as I often do, that every unit in your army causes fear so your opponent must make a leadership test every time you attack him or he attacks you. You only need him to fail one or two tests to mess up his nice neat battle lines and start running.
Please seriously consider either buying more warriors and arming them with hand weapon and shield or carefully removing the spears and bows to change them. You are not going to out shoot dwarfs and the hw and s combination seems to me to be better for the points than spear and shield. Don't forget that B of U L to make sure the unit lasts longer. Either 1 or 2 units of at least 24 warriors should be in every 2000 point TK army. I usually keep my high priest in one of these units as they are usually still around at the end of the battle to look after him. I also give him a Cof D just incase he needs to get out of the way in a hurry.
Take heart in the fact that most TK players seem to have more luck with 2000+ points games than with smaller battles. Remember to manouver your small flanking units to remove the rank bonuses of his big infantry blocks before attacking them.
As in all combats focus on your strengths and your opponents weaknesses.
Magic is your strength and more so against dwarves the higher the point game the weaker those four dispel dice become. And while he can get more its unlikely from the list you've posted that he will.
Hero choices: i would suggest a TK and 3 priests. This gives you alot of magic and also a very good hand to hand combat guy.
SSC, very good against dwarves they move so slow that you will get lots of rounds of shooting and with smiting you'll decimate there army before they get close.
Bone giant, Not so great against Dwarves half of them are stubborn so won't run they generally all have good armour and so makes them harder to kill. I guess while its not ineffective a SSC is far mroe effective
Casket, THey have relatively high leadership so they probably won't care too much about this however if they outnumber evil and even more evil against war machines
Recommendation: 2 SSC's
Tomb Guard, These are great to hold the centre of your lines put in a banner of the undying legion and your tombking with a collar of shapesh and destroyer of eternities and you'll have a unit even iron breakers won't win the combat against.
Ushabti, High strength large number of attacks = great against dwarves.
Tomb Scorpians: Great at destroying the Dwarves real power, there war Machines, you will out number causing fear basically you charge a warmachine it dies. I would use ti came from below risky a little but it could mean only 1-2 turns of firing by there dreaded war machines.
Carrion: Not so great against dwarves because of there higher toughness and Armour save
Recommendation: 2xscorpians 3xushabti 20x Tombguard +SB and Champ
Skeletons with Bows: Great against slayers and not much else but grab 16 of them and its not many points and slayers are really annoying due to there fearless nature.
Hand weapon and Shield: I like this better than spear because it grants us a better armour save which we need to be the effective tarpit unit to hold a unit up for the flank charge.
Tomb Swarms: I don't usually take these but against dwarves I like them for the same reason as a scorpian to take out those dreaded war machines.
Cavalry: I don't like personal oppinion but our units are expensive enough without doubling there poitns to amke them move a little faster. besides against dwarves the movements not the headache.
Chariots: These are great I would grab a unit and give them banner of undying legion there impact hits should be enough to make sure that any flank charge will win the combat and hopefully send the unit running great to use for helping out a flank charge units of 3-4
16x skeles with bows
20x handweapon shield +SB + Champ
if you can afford it another set of skeles handweapon shield.
Sit back and pound him into dust with the catapults while knocking out his firepower with your burrowers. when he gets close charge the TG into his most powerful unit and hopefully take the wind out fo his sails. Use your magic to gain flank charges and destroy the remains of his troops remember to ressurect damage from his war machines with your magic but most important get both catapults that extra shooting phase its lethal. and he will get demoralized and make stupid mistakes quickly.
Last edited by Carnifexus; January 9th, 2007 at 22:30.
If you like the post click the *STAR* <===
Thanks for the help.
I'll definitely try the Scorpions against the war machines next time. I was always weary of It Came from Below because I had misread it as missfiring if the roll to see if it emerged didn't work. I re-read it, and it was almost critical in getting me my first win (popped up, flanked a unit of 11 Dragon Princes with my unit of 17 skeletons and a Tomb King on the other side, flanking. Scorpion pursued, caught the Dragon Princes.)
I don't have the time or money to buy more Ushabti, another SSC, another Liche Priest, any Tomb Swarms, or any Tomb Guard before the next time I play (probably this weekend.) I say time, because the store I go to rarely has Tomb Kings, so I have to have them order stuff for me. Although, my friend (Dwarf guy) works at one of their other stores, and that one seems to have a lot of Tomb Kings, so I guess I could have him pick something up for me...
Whish: for future reference, Tomb Scorpions don't have unit strength 1. The Rulebook says large models on 50mmx50mm bases have unit strength 3, and monsters on the same size have Unit Strength of starting wounds (4). I'm not sure what it would be in this case, probably the first.
Sorry, yes your correct about scorpions being unit strength 3. What I was getting at though was they don't remove rank bonus for flank or rear attack while 2 bases of swarms for roughly the same points will. I usually take 1 scorpion for war machine killing and 2 swarm bases for flanking big units.
I can almost hear the groans of scorn but: provided your opponent is happy with it, you could cut 2x 40mm squares of cardboard to represent 2 more ushabti. I have played against guys doing this before to try out different units and for friendly weekend games have no problem with it. I'm sure that after a couple of games you'll have plenty of incentive to buy a couple more models.
Tomb scorpians are unit strength 4 as they are monsters. And if your gonna play 2k pts you definately need more rank and file. I consider myself a low rank and file player and i ahve more than you. Also do you play against alot of other opponents you might consider a casket at 2000pts they are well worth it against anyone excepts elves and dwarves. Great against those pesky lizard men who never think there low leadership matters... i've seen a few skink priest go pop due to there low leadership
If you like the post click the *STAR* <===
Strange you should pick those armies, because the three friends I play with primarily play Dwarfs, High Elves, and Lizardmen. There's also high potential for playing against Skaven (the Dwarf guy's dad joins us every now and then with some Skaven) and Orcs and Goblins (Dwarf and High Elves players both have Orcs and Gobbos, and I have another friend who rarely shows up, but plays them)
I'm wanting to play the Dwarf guy's Skaven so badly. He's a phenomenal general, so I just want to see how Skaven would handle a fear causing army, a SSC, and a Casket of Souls.
My friends wouldn't mind the cardboard thing. I've fielded empty bases before. The High Elf player has a large bulk of Wood Elf models. In fact, the last battle I was in, I needed three more Carrion, so I fielded a Skull Pass troll, and 8 Night Goblins arranged in 2x2 units.
I'm not against using things to represent models, I just prefer not to, and was curious what people could suggest with what I have.
But interesting with the Lizardmen being weak versus the Casket. I don't think I've ever seen them fail their fear/terror checks. I might as well do it; he's not very good. He's only managed to beat me because Tomb Kings suck in 1000pts battles, which is all I've played against him.
well first things not to do- dont try and outshoot him, and in cc you could do with some tomb guard and more ushabti.
I dont play TK but i do play dwarfs, TKs are a tough army to use but at higher points levels they start to come into their own. Utilise the magic phase- not only can you build your unit strength back up after losing combat rounds to tie up dwarf infantry blocks but you can cause your remaining units, particularly the cavalry, to be urgent and get in a lot of flank and rear charges- this way you will overwhelm the dwarf line.
Also, use your swarms and scorpions to attack the dwarf warmachines and destroy them before they can get too many shots off at your troops
PLAN CLAN MAN!!
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- S. Johnson
Out shooting a dwarven army is not something he would expect. I think its quite achieveable certainly once a scorpion charges a war machine crew you've got a 96% chance that the machine won't fire again in the game. 2 swarms generate similar odds...
If you like the post click the *STAR* <===
dwarf's are slow so use chariots get more of them and other fast units.
the chariots will get in there quick do there damage and theyll be running but i do suggest that you keep chariots away from iron breakers and slayers and anyother models with high strenth
(><)This is Bunny. Copy Bunny and this message into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination!