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I'm not a big fan of special characters. They are usually overpowered for their points cost to the point that some of them can handle an entire army by themselves. However, I was toying around with trying an army with Khalida. Anyway that's besides the point.
The point is, I was reading up a little on Settra (now that I'm much smarter at the game of WHF and see that he takes up two lord slots (thus, you can only use him in a 3,000 point game or greater). And that his army must be made up of Heavy Horsemen, Chariots and Tomb Guard for 50% of the point cost or greater (in any combination).
So in a 3,000 point game (the minimum to use Settra), 1500 points will at least be tied up into these three types of units. Who am I kidding. Hardly anyone uses Heavy Horsemen, so it's more realistically 1500 points of Tomb Guard and Chariots. Then tack on the cost of ol Settra himself, and now we're at a total of 2125. If you're like me, you'll want to max out on character choices so you can add muscle to the pudgy undead infantry, and since Liches are outlawed in a Settra army, and the Icon Bearer pretty much sucks, you'll be taking lots of Princes. If you take four (which is the max you're allowed for 3000 pts) the points total is now up to 2525, and that's without even giving the Princes any gear (let's say each guy gets 50 points worth). Now we're at 2725. So basically, we're left with 275 points to buy fluff for a Settra list, and if it were me, I'd probably just plunk up two SSC with Skulls of the Foe upgrade and call it a day.
Barring the fact that Settra's army would probably get trounced by a magic heavy 3000 pt army (like Lizards, Vampires, Elves or Tzeench guys), the sheer requirement of all those Tomb Guard/Chariots makes this a list that I doubt I'd ever see fully represented without any proxies. I mean, if you went all Chariots to fill the 1500 pt requirement for a 3000 pt list, it would take thirteen units of chariots! THIRTEEN! That's 39 chariots. At $35 for three, that'll run you $455 alone! Tomb Guard are even worse at $45 for 120 points. It would take $585 - and you'd have to spring extra for command models (Plus the other filler models (Princes, Settra himself and whatever you want to spend you few remaining points on)). (If we go with my recommended two SSC, it'll cost an extra $168 for everything).
Not to mention all of the cleaning, assembly and painting. I find chariots the most taxing model to complete as you have to constantly shift gears from horses, to a machine, to basic infantry style models. I'm still amazed with myself that I have nine completed chariots for my TK collection. And then after you have spent all this money and devoted all this time and effort, now you have an ultra specialized list that includes an uber character that most opponents will shy away from playing. And everything that you have is not easily convertable into a standard working 2000pt list without several extra purchases.
Okay. So anyways, that's my rant. After going over it, it seems like Settra was made out more of a marketing idea than an actual playable special character. Settra, lord of the ultra expensive uber stupid army. Way to go, thunder noob, at least your model doesn't totally blow. Oh well, at least Khalida is usable.
Has anyone ever tried to put together a Settra army? Seen it done? Or has a similar rant they'd like to vent about him?
I agree totaly with you he is definittly he is not playable. also the fact that there can be no liche priests in the army makes your army too vunrable to magic. Which is a big problem agains heavy magica army and lets face it the only good thing he has is his improved version of my will be done.
However neither is Khalida playable for the only reason that she is not a hlp
In my opinion, for a defensive minded Tomb King army, Khalida along with 3 Liche Priests is the optimum way to go. Her version of my will be done is guarenteed to go off. She allows every unit with a bow to get poison arrows, effectively making half our hits wound. Also her serpent staff is amazing.
So I don't know what your getting at about she is unplayable.
No, I've never seen a Setra list done, but outside of the obscene cost of the models and the time it would take to build/paint them, I think its doable. Yea, magic defense is weak, but offensively, your "My Will Be Done" will be effecting almost every unit on the board if your smart. Also, I wouldn't use the SSCs in this list, for they are going to get left behind. Take Bone Giants. This is an assaulty army, and Bone Giants are undeniably assaulty. Also I would definately take a BSB in this list. BSB's give all your units nearby -1 to their combat rez, which will save you some skeletons.
While you may have weak magic defense, you'll be getting into combat on turn 2 or 3, so that should limit some of the damage.
Last edited by Spector; April 14th, 2007 at 17:30.
consider also that the skelies are now at a higher cost and also consider how many skelies are you gona have? so lets say you ahve 60 3 units of 30 or smothin like that that means over 1000 points for just 60 skelies and Khalida another 3 lich priest means aroun 500 pts so 1500 points for just 2 units of skellis Khalida and 3 lichpriest, i guess your gona have 2 catapults so thats another 200 pts 1700. and you have nothing that can take on hard hitters.
+ if you play defensive the casket is a must and you dont afford it.
I would gladly take a hlp with cloak of the dune and ravening staff over her and he would cost me much less
consider that tk win via incantations basically so with her in the army you only have 3 incatations or may, 3 are eaily dealt with by the oponent,
with a hlp you have 6 7 if you take a casket, + another 2 or 3 for bound items that makes a total of 9 incatantions per turn 10 with the heratic jar try stoping that power. (2 of which are with power 3d6) your oponent will wast all scrolls firs turn leaving him at ur mercy from turn 2 onwards
It doesnt work ive tried it yeah maybe in theory but in reality it doesnt work you''l get crushed by a horad army easly unles you egt lucky with a skull catapult, you are basing all the game on that good skull catapult shoot, thats too risky for my playstyle
Last edited by Ereius; April 14th, 2007 at 18:08.
Personally I haven't tried Khalida yet, thats true. The other TK player down @ my store where I play runs a 2k shooty/defensive list with her in it and he does well with them. His list is something like this:
3x Liche Priests
4x 10 Skeleton Archers (might be 5x 10)
25 man unit of Tomb Guard
Thats the core of his army and he rotates things in and out of it as he needs to. He aslo plays the Bone Giant list from White Dwarf (don't remember the issue...). Oddly enough...he is very anti-chariot...strange because of how effective ours are.
Back to Settra, I don't have an issue with his points cost. 6xx points for what you get with him is nothing. His weapon, armor, and chariot are godly. I just wish he wasn't 2 Lord choices. Maybe a Lord and a Hero or Lord/Hero/Rare like Lord Kroak. Fluff-wise I can see why it is 2 Lords though. Settra was one of the greatest warlords ever to live and he basically is freaking immortal. Fluff-wise he would easily be able to go toe to toe with any other ubercharacter in Warhammer Lore...which brings into question about why the other uber characters don't cost 2 lord choices...my only guess is no one else really has an impact on the army as a whole as Settra does with his giant "My Will Be Done."
Last edited by Spector; April 14th, 2007 at 18:44.
No doubt, for his points cost, Settra is extremely powerful. I just think the limitations on the rest of the army that are incured for using him are just monetarily ridiculous as well as making for a very poor army as a whole.
I even wrote a topic about him myself. I've just started building my TK army, and although I realize that Settra's army can be weak if played to often, I really want to try his kind of army out. The tactical idea behind the army of Settra is to constantly maneuver your troops into more flank charges than your opponent can avoid. Think along the lines of two or three major flank charges per turn. My idea would be to only have two princes and an iconbearer, but 8-10 required units that each give an extra incantation. Since the cap to cast the same incantation on the same unit will be about four (Settra's will, prince +2 HLP-like incantations), it will be essential to have more than one really scary thing going on each turn. Also, support from mage killers like tomb scorpions and carrions is essential.
I think the main reason you don't like the idea of Settra's army is that you don't see that Settra's special MWBD replaces the need for many characters. You'll have few or no game-winning units, but instead ten or so units that are tactical beasts.
If Settra dies before turn six, however, you have lost.
I partly disagree. Settra is only unusable because he needs a 3000pt army to use him. Otherwise he is one of the hardest characters in the game. He has a top Lord Profile with two 4+ ward saves in a scathed Chariot with a host of special rules, not to meantion that every Tomb Guard, Chariot and Horsemen unit gets a potential move in the magic phase in addition to thier Settras normal spells. When the new TK book is released (and I'm afraid to say that this is still along way off) he will be toned down slightly but also become only one Lord choice which will rock!