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Ok so basically i think that the worst match-up playing any kind of tomb king army list goes to that torek list where you have 4 bolt throwers (some with str 7 ouch) around 4 units of 12 tunderers torek and 2 gyrokopters somhting like that.
Personaly i managed to win against such a list last tournament but i was just lucky that i charged first turn with my tk unit and took out 2 bolt throwers 1 unit of tunderers and torrek by over running. But i belive that it is almost impossible to win if you dont get that turn1 charge and thats gonna be difficult if you play against a good dwarf player since he will deploy all units 11 inches and not 12 which means you dont get the cariot charge. ANy ideas guys how to beat such an army ? whats units might be usefull and such since even using my 4 skorpions icb it wasnt that easy as a game.
Anyway thouts and help much appriciated
Any sort of gun line army, I personally find relatively easy to defeat. Carrion are your friends here as with a good deployment, you can all but guarantee the first turn charge here. I have upped my count to at least 5 since 7th edition(so that they can dual purpose for crossfire rule). ICFB is also good, and I tend to take at least 2 scorpions, and 2 tomb swarms.
Utilizing any and all terrain is helpful, as are lucky shots from SSC's.
The other helpful factor in achieving victory is healing. We can advance a bit slower, and spend more incantations on healing, or advance fast with more casualties. With the scorpions, carrion, and swarms hopefully amidst their lines, I generally take a bit slower approach and make sure I have a sizable force when I reach the other side.
Odd as it sounds, a large block of skeletons, with the BotUL, priests nearby for summoning is one of the best units to face them. I have watched SO much thrown at this unit and yet it still moves on.
It's Adventure Time!
2010 'Ardboyz Champion
Yeah i get your point but carrion are not that good against dwarfs toughnes 4, ws 4 good armour save some times they cant even take on simple crewman.
I dont really belive that a large block of move 4 skelies can work. The blot throwers will cut throgh them in 1 turn tuning a unit of 40 into 20 + the anvil will reduce their movment to 2 which is hilariously sad. the rest of teh army he'll wither away with the tunderers.
+ the raising is not as good as many people think you have to consider that in 1 turn only 1 or 2 incantations will work maybe nothing in turn 1 & two because of dispell scrolls so are you gonna wast that one incantaion on raisng ? no i prefere to waste it on that extra movment
Ok im fairly new at this, well more like inexperienced. But i would possibly recommend LHP instead of TK. And then a jar for the Lhp, so you can possibly charge(i dunno) or extra movement in general. Then some ushabti and chariots, with of couse scorpions/swarms. Get the mask that causes terror perhaps. i dunno just listing ideas. O well goodluck.
Carrion in combat, preferably 5 strong, should be able to take out the crewman. Even if not, crewman in combat can not fire the machine.
With regards to the block moving, albeit slow; I highly doubt that one turn of shooting will destroy the entire unit of let's say 25. If that happens, well luck was on his side, and that is just simply unavoidable. He focuses fire on your block, then that leaves a large portion of your force untouched. If he divides his shooting up, then that is easier to heal then.
The main portion of the advance you are missing is that it works combined with the carrion being there(hopefully turn one), scorpions popping up, as well as swarms. As was mentioned in regards to the carrion winning combat, they just need to engage, not necessarilly win.
As far as wasting incantations raising, well, that will mainly depend on who is leading your force. If it is a TK, then he has two incantations, neither of which are going to be summoning. Also, with the BotUL you get another free summoning. Generally I personally take a king and 3 priests and have never had much of a problem getting spells through past the first turn. With regards to that, for the most part you use movement on turn one regardless, just to get that extra "oomph" forward", and because hopefully there are not too many casualties to raise anyways.
It's Adventure Time!
2010 'Ardboyz Champion
Hrm well this is a theoretical list not sure if it would work on not but I like the idea.
Tomb King, Tomb Prince, 2 Liche Priests
Swarms, Heavy Cavalry, Chariots
3x Tomb Scorpions, Carrion
2x Bone Giants
Ok the idea is this. Get your carriorn the turn 1 charge if possible. Hopefully buy turn 2 or 3 your ICFB units will have surfaced and be tying up a lot of units, especially his artillary. Run you chariots up each flank with you heavy cav (including mounted liche priests) in the middle. The Bone Giants will be coming up the middle as well. Ideally your heavy cavalry will hit the line before your ICFB/carrion are dead. They will be acting as a mobile skeleton block. Then your chariots will pincer in from the sides. All of this is concluding by some painful charges from your bone giants. Would it work as planned, probably not. Doable and able to beat the list, I think so.
Thorek is the dwarf special character on the anvil, isn't he? I've never played the list, but there was a kid who had a dead similar one before the shop closed where I live.
It was the Thorek guy, two units of thunderers, four warmachines (I think it was two ballistae, a cannon and a flame gun), then two units of hard block infantry (Ironbeards, or whatever they're called). Not to mention he also had about 7 dispell dice.
Everygame, he'd set up his anvil in the very extreme corner, put his hard infantry in front of it, his gunners in front of that and the warmachines off to one flank.
I have never seen such devestation in my life. Every turn, two units were taking 2D6 Str 4 hits and moving at half speed (which isn't even a spell that can be dispelled). The warmachines pound away and when your units finally do start moving up, you get blasted by Str4, AP guns. Then if you survive all that, you have to fight two big damn units of T4, 3+armor dwarves.
Needless to say, fighting this army was not fun. You move your units up a couple inches, he blows you away, you pick up models. Yay.
Finally, one of the regulars had had enough and decided to teach the kid a lesson. He set out his 2000pt Orc army before him, and then commenced....to do nothing. Every turn, he simply tried to get the spell Gork's Warpath to go off. He'd forfiet his movement, and his shooting. Then the dwarf's turn, his units would be decimated by the anvil and warmachines. None of the dwarves would move forward to get in range with their rifles either. Orc's turn, do nothing - rinse, lather, repeat. At the end of the game, the Orc player had one unit left and it was half demolished. All this from just the anvil and four warmachines.
Dwarf players might consider this a good solid victory. Let me tell you, it is not fun playing games like this. If the strategy of your army is so simple to grasp (like, stand there and shoot the enemy to hell with overpowered special characters and warmachines) that a monkey could do it, then you need to rethink things.
After the game between the Orc and Dwarf player, the kid looks all distraugh (as if thinking, 'Why didn't he move forward and try to get to grips with me?'). I asked him if he had fun that game. 'No' was his reply. 'Good. How do you think he (Orcs) feels? You destroyed 90% of his army with four warmachines and one character. Not to mention if he moves forward into your massed gun lines. How much fun do you think he had?' I answered back.
I think at this point the kid realized how crappy his list was, and how unfun it was to play against, and maybe, just maybe, he had a revelation to change things up and play a more balanced list that would be fun for both players. Sadly though, the gaming shop that we gathered at closed its doors for good the next weekend, so I guess we'll never know.
Anyways, I'd recommend this approach if you were faced with this army in an exhibition style (maybe not the first time. Give it an honest try at least, but if your opponent persists with this shit, just sit there and let him grab all the victories he wants until he realises you're not having any fun and he needs to change some things.) And if you're faced with this in a tournament...well, this is exactly the reason I don't play tournaments.
I am a Dwarf player and I do have some things to say about using Thorek Ironbrow! I got to use him a couple of times because I had 1500 points and needed 2000 so of course the easy way of getting into the game was taking him. And I tell you, if the dwarf player respects you (which should be the case among all the players) Thorek should not be used! Offer the dwarf player to use a regular Runelord with an Anvil and use the rest of points (apr 150-200) for something else. It makes the game SO much more fun! I always gamble with Ancient power - it is that power that makes people all mad when you keep using it and having a reroll with Kragi (Runesmith of Thorek). But for a regular Runelord Ancient power comes at 4+ and no reroll, and misfires are quite fun to sit through... Makes it all more exciting for everybody to play!
But just to make things more interesting for you - Check out the rules for the new Anniversary White Dwarf model Again - it should be used against demons and Dragons ...