Question About Changing Nid Army Lists

[tanglethorn]

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm a little new to all of this. If I create an army list and bring it to a game and then my opponent realizes he is facing Nids. Is it cool for him to start making all sorts of army list and wargear adjustments so his army can be Anti-nid? It just seems a little cheap to start taking every thing in your codex that is specialized to kill a particular army right before the game starts. For me it is just no fun.

My idea of a fun game is to create an army list with the Nid models I have and play it against all sorts of armies. It's even ok to design your army to specialize against certain armies or army types before you enter the store, but to start making all sorts of last minute changes because you see what's on your opponents army list is kind of cheap in my book.

Am I wrong? Like I said I'm kind of new to this, so I may be totally off base.

One of th reasons I brought this up was because our local GW store offers a Battle ladder competition and if the leader at the top of the pyramid is able to defend his spot for 4 games in a row he wins a prize. I then asked one of the GW staff if people were allowed to modify their army lists on the drop of a dime and he said yes. I had mixed feelings about this, but I think I will still register to play. One thing I would hope the GW store would enforce is the WYSWIG rules. I saw a player tape some paper to the back of his Tyrant so he could have wings, but it was just a pickup game. Do I have the right to refuse to play such players in a Battle ladder competition that costs $10 to register? I spent about $20 and a few hours doing my Winged Hive tyrant conversion, so this is kind of a slap in the face for me.

I love the hobby aspect and I'm trying to approach it with a sense of proffessionalism. For me the modeling and pating part is just as important as the rules for playing.

Thoughts?

[ArchonAstaroth]

Regarding the first part...this depends on what is considered normal in the store. If you are free to adjust your list once you know what you're playing against too, then i wouldn't see a problem with it.

Regarding wysiwyg...take into account that not everyone is as much into modelling as you might be. Some things are also too much work to convert just to try it out. I wouldn't do this in a tournament game though, so methinks a provisional winged tyrant in a pickup game is fine.
Perhaps you could suggest a house rule that trying out weapons without wysiwyg is fine in pickup games in general, and for no more than two weeks/5 games for each configuration (depending on what takes longer), so that people have an actual deadline after which they can no longer say that they just want to try out stuff either.

On the other hand...i don't have all biomorphs of my bugs modelled either. I give my opponent a paper sheet with all statlines, and they are pretty much always fine with that. After all, since i am the only tyranid player around, they wouldn't recognize any biomorphs anyway

jwu

[Wookie]

I'm with you Tanglethorn, I think adjusting your army to capitalize on your opponents weaknesses is hardly sporting. You should have one list you submit at the beginning of your ladder match & maybe (just maybe) be allowed to tweak your list based on the mission you're playing & not the army you're up against.

Also, IMO if you're going to field an army in any organized tournament then you should have ALL your models at least painted...I think it just shows respect & commitment to the hobby & your fellow 40k brothers/sisters-in-arms. If you're playing a one-off pick-up game then a less than completely painted army is acceptable.

Hope this helps & remember...Consume the fleshy meat morsels!

[Pyre]

If you're in a tournament usually they don't let you change up the list, whether you know the opponents army or not.

Pick up wise, I'd ask the guy once you both figure out who has what army. Ask him if he has a list made up. If he does then you use yours.

If he says no or you see him change something, both agree to make your list then/change things.

It goes both ways. I prefer the list already made up thing to keep people versitile and unspecialized. Makes people actually improvise with what they have been given, making for a more entertaining game.

[Gojiratoho]

In tournies it all depends on the rules of the event. The last one I played, you chose a unit for each Force Org slot and built them from there. (So for me, I picked 4 Gaunt squads and 2 Stealer squads for my Troop choices, and each week I biomorphed/hive fleet grew them depending on my opponent)

The next one I'm playing requires 6 1500 pt lists (Attacker/Defender lists for Raid, Battle, and Breakthrough missions). We will only know which list we will need each week, not who we are playing so there is no chance to change our lists.

[tanglethorn]

Originally posted by Wookie@Nov 30 2004, 133
I'm with you Tanglethorn, I think adjusting your army to capitalize on your opponents weaknesses is hardly sporting. You should have one list you submit at the beginning of your ladder match & maybe (just maybe) be allowed to tweak your list based on the mission you're playing & not the army you're up against.

Also, IMO if you're going to field an army in any organized tournament then you should have ALL your models at least painted...I think it just shows respect & commitment to the hobby & your fellow 40k brothers/sisters-in-arms. If you're playing a one-off pick-up game then a less than completely painted army is acceptable.

Hope this helps & remember...Consume the fleshy meat morsels!

[snapback]261635[/snapback]

I'm glad you agree. The game is about your army and not about using what is the best against your particualr army. Why not just improvise with what you have and show your tactical superiority by achieving victory. The problem is that I brought this up to the GW staff. Ok, it was a 17 year old kid. But anyway, he plays eldar and he said the whole point about Eldar was to be able to change their weapons to match their opponent because they are a specialty army.

I think my problem is that I need to join a group of people or find another hobby store where people are around my are (I'm 2 and are more serious about modelling and the hobby.

I wonder what Uzi would have to say about chaging your army on the fly. Especially about the battle ladder.

Later.

[Bronco Johnny]

I thought in 3rd edition you weren't supposed to even create an army list until you had determined a mission? Not sure about fourth. I kind of take it for granted by that point you will also know what opponent you are fighting.

I'll agree that it is cheesy to make major changes just to try and tackle whatever opponent you are faced with. To combat this I say that WYSIWYG should be fairly heavily enforced to discourage a lot of changes on the fly.

Personally, when i play Nids, i show up with EVERY model I have in my cases. Mostly because I am not sure what the points limit will be or who I am fighting until i get to the store. I can then create a list and start picking models. In a tournament I think it makes sense to have one list and one list only. I'd think that it would make sense that the lists were kept private though.

[Hivefleet Hades]

Well as for tornies or ladder games..i would deffo say no.. eveyone picks there army list at the start and sticks with it, but as for one off games, turning up to GW store and offering somebody a match, tinkering around with an army list is pretty much ok in my eyes, for example if a space marine opponent says. 'ohhh your using tyranids and then goes off, to tinker with his allround list, taking 2 whirlwinds and a few extra heavy bolters in his squads..then ill drop my biovores and take zoanies instead, it kinda makes sense.

I often take with me, several different army lists with just a few changes to each
for example a CC specialist army list, allround army list, and a shootier army list.(each list has a few changes around the main force i take)
For one off games i just chose one that i think will suit me best...but for tornies i allways use my allround army list anyways

[strewart]

There is a thread much like this in the general discussion forum, check that out too.

I agree, an opponent changing their list basd on what you have is just plain wrong. As I said in the other thread I don't even believe in showing your list before the battle. I always like to have a few little item suprises, and they won't work if my opponent knows them. Same the other way around, sometimes my plan of attack needs to completely change when I find out what an enemy unit has.

[tanglethorn]

On another note, what if I don't want my opponent to know I have Lictors. What's the best way around this?

Should I take a peice of paper and subtely write down where they are on the board while I leave my lictors tucked away in my jacket

But in regards to the topic. It just aggravates me that a GW store will sponsor a battle ladder competion and allow everyone to modify their army lists to take on the army that's on the next tier. Maybe I should ask the store manager's thoughts are on this. He seemed to be a senseible guy. After all, I've just been dealing with the high schoolers behind the counter.

Anyways, Ive been talking to a few others about this as well and they all seem to agree. Changing your army lists to break a specific army is cheating.

How about a rule that armies are allowed to modify a certain percentage of thier points before the battle? Say 15-25%. I can see how people wpuld want a little bit of flexibility during a tournament or a battle ladder.