Anyone else had to face this Cheesery?

[knightenfex]

So I played my first time at a GW store the other day.

I won my first game with my nids nice and solid against Ultramarines. Second game I get challenged by this Eldar player I'd seen in there before.

I don't know the name for them but he's got three of those grav-tanks covered in star cannons etc. Then he has two bikes of some kind and the absolute minimum of troops and HQ choice. Two squads of guardians inside two of the tanks and one warlock or whatever casting guide inside the third one.

He's only been beaten once apparently and I could tell right off the bat there was no way I could do it. All he has to do is fly the things around the board and fire at you over and over again. He was even nice and let my Carnifex rush one of them at one point (I realized he made the mistake on purpose later)

Anyway I killed one tank, one bike and the guardians inside the tank. didn't matter though because any time I fired at the other two with my gunfex that ridiculous Eldar technology just kept picking the lower of the two rolls etc.


Has anyone else here had to face this? I found it ridiculously cheesy and it took him ZERO strategy to play it. I'm not sure how it would even be fun playing with an army that cheap. They move so fast that I can never catch them and I sure as hell am not going in there next week with an army specifically designed to take his out. Even then it would be risky and I'd have to take two gunfexes or something.

1000 point game btw. ALso it was that stupid scenario where you just try to kill the other player, maybe a different scenario my odds would have been better.


TL;DR version: Cheese, do you LIKE it?

[Orkrontyr]

What you are refering to is the Holo Field upgrade and yes, it is incredible cheese. Sadly, some git at GW seems to think it is fair, since every rumor I've heard says it will stay in the new 'dex. The only thing to be done for it is to shoot the bloody things while going for any mission related objectives. The weak point of an army like this is what, while it is hard to kill, it doesn't capture well. if he leaves his units all safe and tucked away in skimmers, he effectively cuts his number of scoring units (as far as capturing) in half. For things like Take and Hold, all you need to do is sit on the objective and watch as his low volume of fire (just 3 Falcons isn't all that vs tyranid hordes) makes it impossible for him to claim.

Where this list owns all is in games without objectives and Seek and Destroy. So make sure you play missions and ignore him for the mission objectives.

PS: I'm actually a Necron player, and even I have trouble taking down Holo Field Falcons. It's not worth you gettign unsettled.

[knightenfex]

Hmmm. this is very interesting considering I kept thinking about that the next day. Most other mission I would have had a better chance because those things aren't worth points once the troops get out (As i understand it).

He didn't have to hold anything on the table, just fly around and shoot until all my MC's were dead.

Which brings me to him rolling five 6's in a row when rolling for mission pick. It was weird because I rolled four 6's in a row myself and we kept tieing. Then on the fifth roll he got a six AGAIN and I got a four so he got to pick the mission. He then placed that single die back in his tin. I was tempted to ask to see the dice but I was new there so I didn't.

Seems weird to me now, I'll see what happens next week if I play him again.

[Dreachon]

Doesn't matter if your new to somewhere, if you think some odd is going ask, it's the only to get rid of cheaters quickly.
I also think he cheated you as there is no schenario that requires you to kill your opponent.

Also did I read it right that he used the warlock to cast guide while inside the the grav tank, if so he is clearly cheating.

[Da Springy Nids]

YeeHaa.

Its the "Starcannons of Death/Catch Me if you Can Army".

Effective as hell.

And...

Boring as bats#!t...

It is a definate sign of a persons weak abilities at stratagy when they go with this option.

You can do a few things.

1. Cheat like he cheats. The tyranid codex is a mystery to most, exploit this.
2. Make an army just to beat him. 3 Dual V/C fexs. 2 Dual V/C tyrants W/guard. 3x DS sporemines etc.
3. Tell him to take his uber rorted "Im so good" army and insert it in an orifi of his own choice.

Eldar and Chaos appeal to people of limited abilitys. (NOT saying that all those who play them are such, just they are the most rortable of armys).

[tyranidfrenzy]

Originally Posted by Da Springy Nids

Cheat like he cheats. The tyranid codex is a mystery to most, exploit this.

Are you stupid!? What kind of advise is that? Its supposed to be a fair game, you shouldn't combat cheaters by cheating.


Knightenfex, if your playing at the gw store and somethin smells then just ask the staff and they should clear it up. If they aren't sure then check the codex or rule book as they will be there.

[Rex]

Originally Posted by Da Springy Nids

Cheat like he cheats.

What?! Enough said about that ..

Back on topic - I know it's tough to bring those ships down and the only way is to just really throw alot of hits on it (a lascannon has about the same chance as anything else anyway). The fex' tactic could work here.

But I disagree that a different mission would lose him the game, becuase he'd just hunt you down and kill all you got anyway. And therefore winning the game because he's got more scoring units than you anyway.

[moob]

3 falcons is 1000 points is ridiculous. And having a farseer pasenger guide the falcon he is in is not cheating. You only need line of sight to what you're guiding - well, you're in the darn thing, you surely can see it. It doesn't say you need sight to the weapons, only to the model/unit.

And unfortunately, Nids (and Necrons) have it the hardest by far to kill falcons. With their 2d6 pick the lowest, you either need to get really lucky (rolling 2 5+'s), or stun it can't move and you can get a penetrating hit next turn. Well, with bugs, our biggest anti-tank can't penetrate it anyway because it's not open top.

When I fight eldar armies like this, I typically just try to keep them shaken as much as possible so as to avoid their mass ap2 firepower while either going for the rest of their army with my regular troops or going for the objective.. Tough games to be sure in the hands of a good opponent, but not unwinnable.

[Rex]

Originally Posted by moob

And having a farseer pasenger guide the falcon he is in is not cheating. You only need line of sight to what you're guiding - well, you're in the darn thing, you surely can see it. It doesn't say you need sight to the weapons, only to the model/unit.

I'm not sure about this. If my opponent wished to do this I wouldn't allow it, on the basis that units inside transports can't do anything (except disembark).

This situation havn't occured in our gaming group before, since it's kinda obvious (in our opinion), and even if we're wrong .. we won't allow it. As a house rule then .. :rolleyes:

[theriddles]

the holofield will stay the same in the new codex, but rumour has it that the spririt stones (on a 4+ shaken to stunned, stunned to shaken. on a 6 stunned to nothing) - which in combination with the holofield is insane - will only downgrade stunned to shaken. so the falcon will continue moving but not be able to fire. this will make the falcon less effective but the transport wave serpant more effective.

i am an eldar player myself and i dont play 3 falcons even in 2000 points and ill refuse to put one in 1000 but it limits your troops so much at its high cost.

for nids and crons, as said above, they are absolute arses to take down at range. if crons get into rapid fire, its screwed because you will get a fair few glancings and the holo field only works so often. nids is a different proposition. im not sure how nids can cope with eldar tanks other than concentrating on them one at a time. genestealers and hormagaunts (is it hormagaunts who can have rending?) and raveners