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This is a variation of list I'm using and want to here what you think.
- extra level
- master of the black arts
- forbidden lore
- lord of the dead
- walachs bloody hauberk
- sword of might
- book of arkhan
- dark acolyte
- summon ghouls
- flayed hauberk
- sword of battle
- talisman of lycni
- rod of flaming death
- full command
- std and mus
- unholy lodestone
20 Grave Guard
- full command
- banner of the barrows
- great weapons
3 Spirit Hosts
3 Wraiths and Banshee
The Lord goes with the skeletons while the Vampire goes in the ghouls, so what I have is 3 infantry units that are very capable of winning on their own. The zombies protect a flank and get big with a few invocations. The spirit hosts either flank or hold a hard enemy unit up for the game while the wraiths harass and lend kills where needed. That's my very loose battle plan. Also depending on the lore my Lord chooses I can cause a fair bit of ranged death.
With my other list I swap the spirit hosts and wraiths for a varghulf, wolves and a small unit of black knights. Which would you say suites the army better?
Last edited by no1cafc; April 5th, 2008 at 01:36. Reason: Forgot great weapons on grave guard.
you need a lot more speed, your list at the moment makes me want to cry(almost), i would suggest the spirit host to get some dire wolves, and with the extra points, beef up the skeletons and ghouls a bit, that should work fine
I disagree, wraiths and spirit hosts are fast enough especially being ethereal and if my Lord chooses the lore of vampires I can cast vanhels 4 or 5 times so speed isn't really an issue.
In most cases I should get away with starting with units of 15 due to my magic. And I'm defiantly keeping the spirit host as they're a great unit that have been star players for me with the old rules and I expect nothing has changed with the new ones.
I think it's a pretty good list. very character heavy, but tstill good. Heres what I reckon though:
With your Lord, I reckon the point to taking Walach's to use the 4+ plate mail save, mount up, then get that 1+ save, with 5+ ward. Otherwise, I prefer Crown of the Damned, for a straight p 4+ ward, which I think will be more usuful than a bit of armour, and a 5+ ward. If it was upto me, I'd give Walach's to your 2nd vamp, and Crown of the Damend and Flayed to the general. You MUST protect the general as much as possible, IMO, so spearding out the protection amongst your characters isn't the way to go. Give it ALL to the general, and whatever is left, share it around...thats what I reckon.
2nd vamp is good, as is the necro.
The rest is as good as it's gettin, with all those etherals, and thats fine. I'm not sure if a Banshee is worth the points yet tho. You could drop that 1 model, and get 10 dire woves...and the Wraiths will still kill nearly as much...just no scream, but I dont think tha counts toward combat res anyway.
List as is should do well though. A bit small for me, but magic should help you out here. Only thing I'm overly worried about is still the Lords vulnerability. 4+ armour, 5+ ward ain't a hige amout, and anything that CAn even hurt his T5 will negate most of that armour. See how you go in playtesting I guess.
Thanks for your comments, I'd say 740pts on characters is an modest amount for a 2000pt VC army. At least only 3 of the slots have been used and they're less than half the armies points.
Your point about the generals protection is very true as I do think it's lacking, but I don't want to risk stupidity with a casting Lord even with Ld10 as the army relies on magic so I feel its the best I can do, if only they left the carstien ring as it was. I'll see how things go and if need be I shall change things. With that said the vampire might as well have the flayed hauberk as it will let her sprint out her unit if the situation arises and be well protected.
As much as I'd love some wolves I cant find points for them and I think XXpts is great for a Banshee, I used her with the old rules for more points and now she gets an entourage of wraiths which also got better. You may be underestimating her scream, if you haven't used her I recommend trying her.
One thing I might drop is the unholy lodestone depending on the effect it has on my army and upgrade the vampire to BSB. We shall see after some games.
Again thanks for your comments, I may seem stubborn to change things but I'd like solid reason to change something.
The only little tweak I see, is, I think there will be times you'll really regret not knowing Invocation on the Necromancer. That seems to me to be of greater value to the army than the sword of battle. Just a little tweak of a suggestion =).
Didn;t realise it was 740 points of charcs....thats not bad I guess, I'm just trying to figure out where all your points have gone...seems like fancy banners and ethereal creatures. Not much you do then, to fit those wolves in, but they certainly would round out the list niceley. If I was gonna fit em in no matter what, I'd drop the Rod of Flaming Death, command for the Zombies (do they even need it to serve their purpose? they can't even pursue...), then the Warbanner from the Skellies. Other things you can look at, would be changing the Banner of the Barrows to Banner of Strigos, and dropping one Ghoul, running them 7 wide (you'll be raising them anyway).
In the end, If you're gonna spend points on excessive trinkets, you're gonna miss out on stuff, and the Wolves are the sacrafice. Not a big deal, Wolves can be free vp's to some enemies, but I think they'll make great screens, frenzy baiters, etc.
I wouldn't drop unholy loadstone either. For all those ethereals that can only recover 1 wound at a time, the Loadestone will get them 2 at a time - pretty handy I think, and if you cast IoN on your Skels 3 times in 1 phase, thats 3 extra Skels.....can really make up for bad rolling.
Anyway, good luck! As I said, the list is fine as is, and will work. Maybe I', just used to playing Beastmen AND Khorne, so plenty of cheap troops and no Wizards sucking up my points. I like seeing lots of minis on the field! ;Y
If you're using wraiths and spirit hosts for speed then they probably wouldn't be within marching range of a vampire would they? so they'd still be kind of slow.
Well neither would wolves or knights as I'm not using a varghulf to keep up with them. I've played VC for a few years now so I'm used to the limitation on marching and move accordingly and when the enemy gets close most stuff is march blocked anyway. This is when the ethereal movement comes in handy, ignoring special rules that slow your movement down.If you're using wraiths and spirit hosts for speed then they probably wouldn't be within marching range of a vampire would they? so they'd still be kind of slow.I'll see after a few games, though don't mind him wasting a power dice occasionally if it means my lord gets a boost in strength.The only little tweak I see, is, I think there will be times you'll really regret not knowing Invocation on the Necromancer. That seems to me to be of greater value to the army than the sword of battle. Just a little tweak of a suggestion =).
Well, there's a banner that black knights can have so that allows them to march.