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Hey guys, I have recently been thinking of getting into fantasy. I feel as though I've somewhat settled on VC and I have attempted to make a competitive list with my somewhat limited knowledge of the fantasy ruleset. I've come up with the following list by taking units I think are the most visually appealing so I'm hoping the end result won't have to deviate too much.
405 Vampire lord (Red Fury, Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred, Cadaverous culrass, Crown of The Damned, additional magic level)
150 Vampire (Avatar of death, Dark acolyte)
193 20x Skeleton warriors (Standard bearer + Banner of hellfire)
193 20x Skeleton warriors (Standard bearer + Banner of hellfire)
160 20x Crypt ghouls
100 Corpse Cart (Balefire)
304 19x Grave guard (Standard bearer + Banner of the barrows, great weapons)
325 5x blood knights (kastellan, musician, standard bearer)
I'm pretty sure this is a legal list, although feel free to correct me. I have no idea what lore my vampires should choose, so guidance would be greatly appreciated as would critiques on unit size and equipment.
I also need to know how to expand the army from its current form (for example do I get more 20 man skeleton units or do I expand the ones I currently have?). Lastly, suggested hero/lord builds are welcome as are recommendations on how many should be included as a minimum in 2000 to 3000 pts games.
Thanks for the help.
Tau my love! You are back!
Hi, theres a few things you should consider with VC.
1. low numbers in units is bad, our core are lacking in skill and are over priced. ghouls are better than skellies for more power per point. your best bet is to go for less units but more men.
2. Although hellfire banner can be handy be aware that it can be a downfall, for example high elves can get some serious ward saves vs magic fire.
3. Protect your general. He is a big larget for opponents and you will find most will aid straight for him, if he goes in a group of blood knights as I see you are doing, yes he can cause a lot of damage but if he runs off ahead, the rest of the army won't be able to keep up and thus he will get swamped. If he dies your army is boned.
4. A varghulf is a nasty model that can do some major damage if left to its own devises, use it to target war machines and un-ranked units. But alone he can get masacred regen is all he has and there is a lot of things that can easily null its effect. your best bet with him is to either add another for a pair or support him with a few fell bats.
5. Vampires are key to an undead army. I tend to go for 3 of them in a 2k army, one fully kitted up lord (DO NOT skimp on his equipment) and two support vamps.
usually the lord will either be fully kitted for magic in this case go for black arts for +2 PD, forbidden lore for all vamp spells and summon ghouls, item wise get the flayed hauberk for a 2+ save, dragonbane gem for 5 points and a nice 2+ ward save against fire and sceptre de noirot for bringing on 10-12 zombies (usually on a single dice) to help your block emeies from flanking you.
if he goes all out combat go for red fury with a blood drinker sword- if you have a vamp with the lore of beasts he can get an extra 3 attacks in all he could cause 14 wounds by himself and raise as much back for his unit.
The support vamps I usually have one with forbidden lore with lore of the beasts, this gives your units some nice buffs ie: +1 S and T, characters +3 attacks and strength, and if all goes S*** up he can turn himself into a chimera with 10 wounds, 4d6 attacks and a breathe weapon.
The other I would use forbidden lore to take Metal, this has some neat spells for enhancing defence ie +2 to saves- giving your ghouls a 5+ save or your grave guard a 2+ always handy.
also the spells he will have are great at taking out heavily armoured units such as knights, because the direct damage spells use their own armour to wound them. ie: a knight with a 2+ as is hit automaticly then wounded on his 2+ with no saves alowed. also give this vamp a small bunker unit of around 15 skellies and lord of the dead, so any spare PD can be used to pump into its unit. the crown of commandment is very handy too, sit him behind your main army so they dont get into combat, then you can send off his WS which is 6 to your troops infront. this is a very nasty tactic usually your would have a group of grave guard with your lord in, say you cast the beast key spell for +1 S and T and give out a WS of 6 those grave guard will have str 5 toughness 5 and WS 6 with a lord who can give off 14 attacks himself, that makes one hell of a nasty round of combat, any casulties taken before hand will be revived with a blood drinker or quick nehek spell.
So my advise is get your self another support vamp make them both casters and your lord combat ready, ditch the blood knights, varg and skellies. pump the points into 2 or 3 decent units of ghouls and a strong unit of grave guard (dont worry about great weapons). any points that may be left get some bats they are handy for taking out machines. also never buy zombies or wolves they are useless and zombies can amass quickly for free.
Bit of an essay, but hope it helped
Last edited by sirkently; November 6th, 2011 at 16:30.
Thats all great advice Madlarkin. I'm definetely going to tweak my lord and retool my vampire for a caster type role. I agree that instead of 3x20 man cores, I should have 2x30 man ones. However, I was wondering if at the 2000 point level I could hold off on bringings ghouls and just run with 2x30 man skeleton groups. (Hopefully its a choice that can come down to preference simply because I prefer the skeletons models and want to keep a bone theme if possible) Although ghouls perform better offensively, the defensive characteristics of the skeletons hopefully provides just as much utility. I'll also straighten out my banners and add champions to make the list legal and more effective on challenges.
Next I was looking at more rare choice and I can see what you mean about both my choices being somewhat fragile. At 2000 points and beginning to think I won't be able to do both effectively so I'll probably drop the varghulf until I'm at enough points to run two together. With that 175 points I was thinking I could either buy an additional support vampire (to run in a bunker of skeletons since my original vampire is with the grave guard) OR I could add something along the lines of 5 more grave guard and 2 blood knights.
Also I read the lore a bit more thoroughly and it makes sense. I didn't realise at first that you had to purchase forbidden lore to gain access to the other fantasy lores.
Tau my love! You are back!
If you want a vampire to run with the grave guard, I'd definitely do a combat vampire. You don't really need more than one support vampire at 2000pts in 8th edition the way magic works now. If your dropping the varghulf I'd recommend beefing up your existing units to adding another vampire. Or perhaps a simple wight king with great weapon and use the remaining 90 points to beef up your units.
Also your grave guard should go for the enemy's elite units, no place for a caster to be. A bunker of 15 skeletons is what people normally use. Recently I've been thinking that a bunker of ghouls would work better though, they have higher toughness and most shooting/magic missiles are S4 so the trade off on toughness vs armor isn't that great. Plus they can actually take down small flying units and flankers that manage to sneak through and charge your support vampire.
All skeletons will certainly work, and I'm in the same line of thinking-I prefer the look of them, but ghouls are more efficient. 2 units of 30 skeletons with proper magic banners and a few buffs will certainly hold up the enemy and maybe even grind them down while your real killers go after the rest of the army.'
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
This would leave you some pts for perhaps 1 additional blood knight, and a few extra bodies here and there...
Ghouls still weather the shooting much better though...
If flankers, flyers are reaching your bunker, then 9 times out of 10 the game's gone badly anyways...
The lores of Light, Metal, Beasts and Fire synergise best. Light has the best buffs - namely the ability to give your boneheads WS10/I10 and +1A/always strikes first!
Metal is good for surprises though, being able to buff your armour save to be on par with chaos warriors, and giving you more accuracy (+1 to-hit) plus the armour piercing atribute.
Beasts can buff your S/T and beef up any characters as well.
Fire can put auto-hits on enemy units in base-to-base, as well as add the flaming attacks atribute & +1 to-wound.
Using one or two of the above lores in conjunction with a necromancer w/Vanhel's & Invocation works wonders! But it's riskier than ghouls obviously because you're banking on getting the power dice to cast everythin, while (praying) your buffs don't get dispelled by your opponent!