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i've been tempted to make the jump into WHFB after a first beginners game on Sunday at the LGS. I have fallen in love with the new VC range and to that end (despite owning a few WoC models) will be forming my first VC army. I like the war of attrition idea and have now in my possession 20 skeletons, 20 grave guard and 5 blood knights. Despite the army book not being out until 14th Jan I am starting to build these as Spear armed skeletons (is it worth getting shields on them?) and my Grave Guard with great weapons. I'm assuming points costs will change and a few magical items as well but at the point level i'm looking at -
Whats the most economic number of skeletons to have in a unit at 1500-200pts (I want a lahmian looking general if they still exist so no zombies or ghouls)
Shields on spear bearing skeletons?
how many magic casters and what levels at this point level?
My grave guard will have a wight with Drakenhof banner (FW wouldn't make a model of it if if it was going to be binned in 8th ed?) so does this need reinforcing further with a vamp hero or will this be used to keep a magic caster safe?
I know the book isn't out but some of these can be answered without the book and current VC experienced players would probably know the answers already. I have blood knights for the reason that my beginner game got my unit (10 HE Hoeth sword masters) killed by a DE sorceress on a dragon and i want to obliterate it in 2 weeks time on the next session i play.
Is anybody sick of sticking skeletons together yet?
cheers guys and girls!!!!!!!
Hello, I am also in love with the new VC and will start planning a VC army shortly... but really, no point in starting to build a list until the new book comes out. We will have no idea what will be good or bad until then, and building a list with a book that will be moot in a few days feels kind of heartfell.
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
I know that with the current book shields came standard on skeles and the option was to give them spears for 1/pt a model instead of a sword. so they kept their shields. who knows with the new book though. I do believe that the new skeles will be 5 pts a model and 30 pts for full command, as for other options they will have, i do not know. I suppose with that you can figure out how many you need to put together because you will still need 25% core....
Anyway, i hope it helps but thats all im really comfortable answerin : P
As for your models;
- spear skellies are now viable, a basic skeleton comes with hw/light armour/shield - spear rumored to be a 'free' upgrade!
- don't build weapons yet on your GG - wait to see how the new rules work out as the good 'ol sword&board might be very worthwhile now.
- blood knights got better!
Skeletons come with shields as standard so no worries there.
Their synergies will alctually come more from the heroes you bring and your magic lores/support units like corpse carts and/or mortis engines. Skeletons on their own suck balls... Skeletons with ASF + buff spell + front-rank wraith = good times!
b) Lahmians going back to their original background in the 5th ed book DO use zombies as chaff and to guard the outer most defenses of their towns/palaces. So a small bunker unit for say a necro isn't out of the question. (just keep your lovely ladies well away from the stinkers!)
c) Always bring at least 1 caster with the Lore of Vampires AND your General! At 2k I typically look to have at least 3 casters - 1 Lv3/4 and a pair of Lv1 supporters who take care of the invocating needs.
A new rule we are rumored to gain is that when our general dies, after the initial round of crumbling, if we have another wizard with the Lore of Vampires, that model takes over command of the army and we no longer crumble! (at least, for as long as that poor sap lives)
d) The Drakenhof Banner is gone. The FW model is still awsome and they will undoubtably have their own tricks left up their sleaves... (ie: FW could always bring back the drak banner in one of their suppliment books?!)
Don't get in a twist about it; we were always expecting it to go along with the Helm of Commandment, but we've kept some very critical items, most have improved in some way and every single one of our 9 items is dead usefull! (O&G's on the other hand... well, they'd be very jealous if they weren't still weeping at what happened to their items.)
e) 10 swordmasters vs a supream sorceress on dragon isn't exactly a fair fight!
Thanks for the advice. I'm sure the FW model will suffice as a banner of barrows but i will wait the few days for the army book to emerge and perform some 'math hammer' and look at what i really want models wise out of the new releases. I'm not too fussed with the idea of a zombie dragon and figured a powered up vampire is a better approach at this point range.
a couple of necromancers sounds almost mandatory so hopefully come Monday I will have read enough lists on this site to make up a reasonable list by then. My skeletons are getting build with spears now and i'll sit and wait on the GG front. I get another game soon enough at the local GW store so should have some units of my own to play with then.
I'm not sure it was the best set up for a beginner game as we had around 600pts in all facing off 1600pts!!!! my learning 'gaming buddies' had two units of 10 skaven that did not even move forward using the game so my all out 'charge!!!!!' put me in range of everything in turn 2, hence the death of them.
i'll possibly consider zombies as chaff units as you say, something to tar pit or defend my flanks for a turn or two and hopefully giving my blood knights the opportunity to get a charge in.
- Scabskrath - big sword of killy-killy death, but with a slight downside. (wording will make or break it)
- Nightshroud - similar but not a strait out copy of the current one. Is also said to be 'in addition' to normal armour, like the various helms in the rulebook.
- Cursed Book - a *very* nifty item and I'm sure it'll be a hit with Lv1 casters!
- Black Periapt - 'Lord only' choice, but it got even better.
- Book of Arkhan - no longer runs out of power on a roll of a 1!!!
- Barrows Banner - same as current, only a hint more costly.
- Screaming Banner - same as current, but Skellies can take it! (Whoooooo-Hoooooooo! Also said to combine nicely with some of the newer powers)
I can't recall the other two items, but should give you some ideas to drool over while yo uwait out the next two sleeps in your coffin!
Don't worry so much about 'what lists are taking' on the intertubes... Our new book smells highly of various synergies that you'll have to experiment with and figure out what best fits your own playstyles.
I know that personally, I'm thinking up how some of the items/powers can make skeletons into frontline units capable of being true anvils! But I'd bet that ghoul fans (or whatever the internet desides is the 'one list to rule them all' would call me various names for even thinking my way could be viable...
Looking through other lists can be helpfull, but I've always felt the only way to truely get your ultiment army is to play around & tinker with ideas, hopefully with friends who will let you proxy units and such. (hell, when I worked at GW, we would have games with the freakin' boxes them selves to see how things would integrate - led to a shedload of sales too!)
Also keep in mind, while zombies have indeed gotten a massive boost in viability in this new book, I would still never slam units like blood knights or other big hitters into multiple combats with them... They're still unarmoured chaff with ASL/WS1 and thus will always bleed boatloads of combat res.
They are however usable as bunkers for things like necros or a casty vampire and at a pinch they can be used as the flanking force against other chaff units such as clanrats or gobbos or spearmen.
Better supporters for your expensive Rares or monstrous infantry will be things like 5-wide skeleton units w/screaming banner or ghouls or spirit hosts. (which are rumored to cost roughly half their current cost!)